DM Running Meeting: 20250121 - Notes

[CresitelloDittmar, Mark]

Dear DM,
   Below are notes from our recent running meeting.
   Thanks to everyone for their participation!
Mark & Mathieu

Reminder: We have a Twiki Page
<https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IvoaDMRunningMeetings> to
coordinate the Running Meeting information, agenda, and notes.
(I'll add a link to these notes on that table when they appear in the email
archive.)

*Action Summary:*

   - PH - deliver summary of update candidates to DM mail list, (can
   reference git issues).  Please organize by the threads they support.
   - PH - set timetable for steps moving forward, and send to MCD/MS for
   the roadmap.
   - MCD - organize a focus meeting (virtual) to discuss CAOM
   integration for early February.
   - MCD - submit remaining issues from MANGO review, and summarize to DM
   mail list
   - MS - schedule ObsCore/Extension  cross-group coordination meeting.
       I don't have an assignee or timeframe written down for this.  I also
   note that HEIG is scheduling a focus meeting among themselves to discuss
   the HEIG perspective on this topic.  I suggest MS take an informal poll of
   the relevant parties to determine when this meeting should take place
   - *carry-over actions*
      - MCD: bring the 'Shape' discussion to the DM mail list, with a goal to
      gain consensus on where this model element should live in the DM
      ecosystem
      - ??: bring vo-dml 'version' attribute to DM mail list for
      discussion.. at least to form a plan IF the attribute is, in fact, needed
      for upcoming vo-dml standard updates.


*Attendees:*

Mark CD, Mathieu Servillat, Pat Dowler, Ian Evans, Janet Evans, Paul
Harrison, Mark Kettenis, Bruno Khelifi, Mireille Louys, Marco Molinaro


*Agenda/Notes:*

   - Review open actions from previous meeting
      - see: http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/2024-October/006517.html

*NOTES:*
*We didn't review these, but I've consolidated the list in the Action
Summary above*


   - VO-DML 1.1:  https://github.com/ivoa/vo-dml
      - discuss candidate items presented in Malta
         - next steps.. for 2024B roadmap

*NOTES:*

*Git Milestone List for v1.1:  *https://github.com/ivoa/vo-dml/milestone/1

*Discussed candidate list, and the importance of associating the items with
the use case / usage thread they support.*

*PH: notes they are primarily for code generation and database
representation threads.*

*       The elements are itemized in Git,  and implemented in the toolkit,
but there is no updated VO-DML standard document.*

*MCD: Question, are any of these in support of CAOM?*

*reply ~= maybe.. there are some items which could be useful, but none
specifically needed by CAOM*


*ML: Question, about markdown handling of relations*

*reply - using pandoc *

*MCD: Question, did the list go to the WG list? It's important to get broad
visibility to them before moving forward.*

*reply - no*



*ACTION: PH - deliver summary of update candidates to DM mail list, (can
reference git issues).  Please organize by the threads they support.ACTION:
PH - set timetable for steps moving forward, and send to MCD/MS for the
roadmap.*


   - MANGO 1.0
   - next steps..

*NOTES:*
*WD announced to DM list  20241022*

*  - no comments to mailing list*
*  - currently 10 open issues on Git repo: *
https://github.com/ivoa-std/MANGO/issues
*     - 2 are mine: *
*          - Property1D/2D = resolved*
*          - Relation of Mango Errors and Meas Uncertainty = being
discussed*
*  - I have other issues to submit*

*  ACTION: MCD - submit remaining issues, and summarize to DM mail list*

*Discussion on next steps, and the integration of Measurement extended
items to the Measurements model*

*  - bringing multiple models to the TCG for review is unconventional, but
the proper way of handling them since any given usage thread may impact
multiple data models.*

*JE: Makes sense to do it now, rather than having a larger impact moving
that content out*

*MM: General support for MCD point-of-view, but needs further consideration*

*LM: will provide a suggestion regarding the Measurements extensions *


   -
   - CAOM Integration
      - document state: had lots of editorial work to do at last report
      - focus meeting on integration plan --- who/when/where?

*NOTES:*
*PD: Gave overview of document state, expects to have edits done by end of
February*

*       Adrian is working a python implementation*

*       Some issues have been submitted to Git, these need to be looked at.
( *https://github.com/opencadc/CAOM )

*       Regarding VODML:  not sure if there are update candidates that
would be particularly important, but will take a look by the end of
February.  Also notes that VO-DML produces warnings for bad practice about
common occurrences, could use discussion.*

*MCD: thoughts on a focus meeting?*

*PD:  Brian is organizing a workshop on CAOM implementation, targeted for
March.  This is somewhat orthogonal to that*

*        General agreement that a virtual meeting in early February would
be good.. *

*ACTION: MCD - coordinate this virtual meeting*


   - ObsCore/RadioExtension reconciliation
      - The DM group should be driving this, using/coordinating input from
      the interest groups (radio, time domain, high energy)
      - Recent emails..
         - Pat recommending larger migration of concepts from radio
         extension into core model
         - Malta discussion - client impact of going forward and
         refactoring as we go along.
            - how to discover services that include <domain> extension
            content
         - HEIG - will develop its roadmap with focus on their ObsCore
      extension
         - possible meeting in April (Paris)
      - next steps..

*NOTES:*
*Extension docs on github:*
    - https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension
    - https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObsCoreExtensionForRadioData

*MK: expressed concern that the migration of radio extension content to
ObsCore would be a significant delay to the standard.*

*MCD: asked how much of the extension content is being recommended to move
into Core?*

*reply - about half.*









*PD: notes that with the CAOM update for these; he got feedback from
others/users that they would use them in their (non-radio) context.
 also notes some concern about moving too much into Core, and making it too
sparse.ML: speaking for Time Domain extension.. theirs is a small table,
could be shifted to CoreSuggestion of a cross-group coordination meeting to
work through the details and make a firm plan for moving forwardBK:
 supports the idea, coordination is quite importantMK: the discoverability
aspect of the 'extension' topic is hard from an Interest Group perspective,
can provide requirements, but maybe the coordination meeting can/should
focus on the models.ACTION: schedule coordination meeting.     I don't have
an assignee or timeframe written down for this.  I also note that HEIG is
scheduling a focus meeting among themselves to discuss the HEIG perspective
on this topic.  I suggest MS take an informal poll of the relevant parties
to determine when this meeting should take place.*


   - AOB
      - Cube - HEIG contribution opportunity


   - Schedule next meetings:
      - *Feb 18: 3PM UTC*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/attachments/20250203/d41501e6/attachment-0001.htm>