Call for theory talks at Victoria interop

Tue Apr 17 12:43:10 CEST 2018

Dear Marco,
(I answer also on the Semantics mailing list)

Last week, I answered to an email by Mireille concerning the Theory vocabularies.
Theory SKOS vocabularies can be exported as .RDF files. So, it is possible to put them on the IVOA vocabulary webpage you sent us:
http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VocabularyTestPage <http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VocabularyTestPage>
Nevertheless, we will also need the present dedicated website (http://votheory.obspm.fr <http://votheory.obspm.fr/> - excepted we would like to change its URL to make disappear the obspm.fr and replace it with something as “ivoa something”) since, to fully take benefit of SKOS format, we need an application above the files to search/browse in the concept list and use the relationships between concepts. This point can wait. 

Apart this point, our main concern is  to get a decision concerning the syntax of URIs for concepts.
(see the discussion initiated by Nicolas Moreau on the 30th May 2017 on the Semantics mailing list). 

I note that on the VocabularyTestPage, UCDs are presented in SKOS format. 
So, I have a few questions since the problem we try to solve since one year, for the Theory vocabularies and concepts, is related. 

1 - Namespace, dates & revisions

A concept in the SKOS UCD list seems to be only the UCD without any namespace:
Example of concept: phys.temperature.electron
(taken from: http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html <http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html>)

On the other hand, vocabularies seem to be published with a date and a revision. For example:
ivoa.net/vocabularies/ucd/ucdv1.33/ucd-1.33-20180224.rdf 
or  http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html <http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html>

In a VO-Table in which columns are tagged with UCDs (ex: phys.temperature.electron), how do you provide the namespace that indicates to a system from which vocabulary (with revision and date) the UCD come from ? 
Said otherwise, what is the rule to build the URI of a concept ? I mean the part before the # in:
http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron <http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron>

2 - Interoperability

How do you ensure the interoperability between services ? 
I mean how does a system can know that:
http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2009/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron <http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2009/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron>
is the same physical quantity than
http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2012/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron <http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2012/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron>

Best regards
Franck

> Le 17 avr. 2018 à 08:27, Marco Molinaro <marco.molinaro at inaf.it> a écrit :
> 
> Hi Hervé, Carlos, all,
> unfortunately there was no TCG face-to-face in Santiago, so the vocabulary topic was stuck.
> I make myself a reminder and ask Mireille, so to have this discussed in the TCG in Victoria.
> 
> Mireille has prepared already material to start the discussion from, see
> 
> http://wiki <http://wiki/>.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VocabularyTestPage
> 
> Hope this helps.
> Cheers,
>      Marco
> 
> PS - personal opinion: it would be nice to hear your theory ideas regardless the solution to this issue.
> 
> 2018-04-16 12:04 GMT+02:00 Hervé Wozniak <herve.wozniak at umontpellier.fr <mailto:herve.wozniak at umontpellier.fr>>:
> Hi Carlos,
> 
> one current task for theory is to provide a clear place for its vocabulary. This is mandatory to be able to provide a revision for SimDM, to which I have committed myself.
> 
> After a long discussion on theory and semantics, launched by Marco on May 19th 2017 and suspended after Franck's mail on Oct 9th, it has been suggested (by Marco and Mireille I guess) to move the discussion at TCG level in Santiago. Indeed, any solution mixes formal (IVOA consistence) and technical (subdomain redirection) aspects. I wasn't in Santiago, so I don't know what the decisions are.
> 
> However, without any progress on this issue, it is impossible to move to a revision, even cosmetic, of SimDM.
> 
> So my participation in the Victoria meeting depends on our capacity to conclude.
> 
> Cheers
> Hervé
> 
> PS: do I summarise properly the discussions in writing that 'IVOA' has to decided between:
> 
> http://(www).ivoa.net/vocabularies/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName <http://ivoa.net/vocabularies/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName>
> or
> http://purl.ivoa.net/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName <http://purl.ivoa.net/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName>
> 
> provided that any solution allows for redirection towards an external server for curation (e.g. purl.obspm.fr/vocab <http://purl.obspm.fr/vocab>)
> 
> 
> Le 09/04/2018 à 19:43, Carlos Rodrigo a écrit :
> Dear interop and, in particular, theory people
> 
> This is a call for contributions for the Theory session in the next IVOA Interop meeting in Victoria.
> 
> If you are going to Victoria this may and you are interested in presenting of introducing any
> discussion related to theoretical data in the VO context, please, just send me your proposal.
> 
> Of course, topics related to SimDAL, SimDM, SimDAL implementation note, semantics in the theoretical
> context, etc are welcome. But any new topic that you want to talk about is welcome too.
> 
> See you soon
> 
> Carlos Rodrigo
> crb at cab.inta-csic.es <mailto:crb at cab.inta-csic.es>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herve WOZNIAK
> Astronome
> 
> Directeur-adjoint
> LUPM
> UMR5299 Université de Montpellier - CNRS
> Place Eugène Bataillon - CC 72
> F-34095 Montpellier Cédex 05
> 
> Tel/Phone : +33 4 6714 3902   Fax : +33 4 6714 4190
> 
> skype : herve.wozniak
> http://herve.wozniak.fr/ <http://herve.wozniak.fr/>
> 

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