SDM evolution roadmap: Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit another UCD suggestion

Tue Sep 6 18:51:14 CEST 2022

Vandana,

For the Spectrum model RFE documentation, we have on open detail to resolve.
  o select appropriate UCDs for the new Upper/LowerLimits terms.

I'm hoping to get input from your end (as the requesters for the change),
I expect we'll make a selection and move forward in a couple weeks.

You can see the discussion below, or from the DM working group mail archive
<http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/2022-July/006262.html>

Thanks,
Mark

On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 7:24 AM Salgado, Jesus <jesus.salgado at skao.int>
wrote:

> Just to comment that it also depends on the definition of these
> upper/lower limits
>
> The UCDs proposed are in line with an Upper detection limit, Lower
> detection limit at instrument level but, at least in high-energy, the Upper
> Limit is usually the minimum number of counts from a source necessary for a
> detection (or in flux space) so the Upper Limit would be more related to
> the instr.sensitivity;phot.flux.
>
> So, are we talking about the upper/lower limits of the instrument or the
> source? Both are related but the interpretation is different
>
> Cheers,
> Jesús Salgado
> SKA Regional Centre Architect
> jesus.salgado at skao.int
> www.skao.int <https://www.skao.int/>
> SKA Observatory
> Jodrell Bank, Lower Withington,
> Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK
>
>
> On 28/07/2022, 09:51, "Salgado, Jesus" <jesus.salgado at skao.int> wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I fully agree that Upper/Lower Limits are not errors so, I think, it
> should not be treated as such from the ontology point of view.
> I think we could use both ideas and separate the concepts of Upper and
> Lower Limits.
>
> For me, intuitively:
> Upper Limit is -> instr.saturation;phot.flux
> Lower Limit is -> instr.sensitivity;phot.flux
>
> (just removing the stat qualifiers)
>
> Cheers,
> Jesús Salgado
> SKA Regional Centre Architect
> jesus.salgado at skao.int
> www.skao.int <https://www.skao.int/>
> SKA Observatory
> Jodrell Bank, Lower Withington,
> Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK
>
>
> On 28/07/2022, 07:41, "dm on behalf of Laurent Michel" <
> dm-bounces at ivoa.net on behalf of laurent.michel at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> AS questioned by Mark Upper/Lower limits are not Error terms. There are
> detection thresholds.
>
> UpperLimit: If it was a source here it would have a flux below the upper
> limit
> - instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.max ??
>
> Lower limit: If it was a source here it would have a flux above the lower
> limit
> - instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.min ??
>
> Laurent
>
>
> Le 27/07/2022 à 17:10, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :
> > Thanks Mireille,
> >
> > These are very similar to the current placeholders ( which mimic the
> StatErrorLow|High element ucds )
> > The main question I have about this was/is:
> > o is LowerLimit/UpperLimit conceptually considered an Error term?
> > If not, then perhaps the detection limit options are more appropriate.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 11:40 AM Mireille LOUYS <
> mireille.louys at unistra.fr <mailto:mireille.louys at unistra.fr>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear dmers,
> >
> > just on the UCD assignation , I have another suggestion for
> /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit /
> > which also validates in the UCD builder tool (
> http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd
> > <http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd> ) and contains the
> flux information:
> > stat.error;phot.flux;stat.min
> >
> > /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit/ whould also have this UCD
> > stat.error;phot.flux;stat.max
> >
> > Thanks , Mireille,
> > for the UCD maintenance committee.
> >
> >
> > Le 21/07/2022 à 20:22, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Follow-up on the UCD topic. I've started a new Issue in the repository
> >> <https://github.com/ivoa-std/SpectrumDM/issues/5> for this, so it can
> be worked outside of the structural model changes.
> >> The primary objective is to select the proper terms for the new
> elements.. I'm not sure if we need to go outside this list
> >> for that, but I'm hoping Vandana and Petr can get some review on this
> and provide feedback.
> >>
> >> The following shows the UCDs put into this PR, and the suggested values
> per the UCD Builder utility.
> >>
> >> * Data.SpectralAxis.order => "instr.order"
> >> * Data.SpectralAxis.relorder => "instr.order"
> >> o UCD builder suggests: "stat.variance;instr.order" for both, though
> "instr.order" can stand on its own.
> >> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit =>
> "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.min" (Same as StatErrorLow)
> >> o UCD builder suggests:
> >> + "statistical lower limit" -> "stat.value;stat.min"
> >> + "detection lower limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.min"
> >> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit =>
> "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.max" (Same as StatErrorHigh)
> >> o UCD builder suggests:
> >> + "statistical upper limit" -> "stat.value;stat.max"
> >> + "detection upper limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.max"
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)
> > Centre de données CDS IPSEO, Images, Laboratoire Icube
> > Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg
> > 11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
> > F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
> > Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34
> >
>
> --
> English version: https: //www.deepl.com/translator
> --
> jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles/Berlin
>
> Laurent Michel
> SSC XMM-Newton
> Tél : +33 (0)3 68 85 24 37
> Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32
> Université de Strasbourg <http://www.unistra.fr>
> Observatoire Astronomique
> 11 Rue de l'Université
> F - 67200 Strasbourg
>
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