<div dir="ltr"><div>Vandana,</div><div><br></div><div>For the Spectrum model RFE documentation, we have on open detail to resolve.</div><div> o select appropriate UCDs for the new Upper/LowerLimits terms.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm hoping to get input from your end (as the requesters for the change),</div><div>I expect we'll make a selection and move forward in a couple weeks.<br></div><div><br></div><div>You can see the discussion below, or from the <a href="http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/2022-July/006262.html">DM working group mail archive</a> </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div>Mark<div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 7:24 AM Salgado, Jesus <<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Just to comment that it also depends on the definition of these upper/lower limits<br>
<br>
The UCDs proposed are in line with an Upper detection limit, Lower detection limit at instrument level but, at least in high-energy, the Upper Limit is usually the minimum number of counts from a source necessary for a detection (or in flux space) so the Upper Limit would be more related to the instr.sensitivity;phot.flux.<br>
<br>
So, are we talking about the upper/lower limits of the instrument or the source? Both are related but the interpretation is different<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jesús Salgado <br>
SKA Regional Centre Architect<br>
<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int" target="_blank">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a><br>
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Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK<br>
<br>
<br>
On 28/07/2022, 09:51, "Salgado, Jesus" <<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int" target="_blank">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I fully agree that Upper/Lower Limits are not errors so, I think, it should not be treated as such from the ontology point of view.<br>
I think we could use both ideas and separate the concepts of Upper and Lower Limits.<br>
<br>
For me, intuitively:<br>
Upper Limit is -> instr.saturation;phot.flux<br>
Lower Limit is -> instr.sensitivity;phot.flux<br>
<br>
(just removing the stat qualifiers)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Jesús Salgado <br>
SKA Regional Centre Architect<br>
<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int" target="_blank">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a><br>
<a href="http://www.skao.int" target="_blank">www.skao.int</a> <<a href="https://www.skao.int/" target="_blank">https://www.skao.int/</a>><br>
SKA Observatory<br>
Jodrell Bank, Lower Withington,<br>
Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK<br>
<br>
<br>
On 28/07/2022, 07:41, "dm on behalf of Laurent Michel" <<a href="mailto:dm-bounces@ivoa.net" target="_blank">dm-bounces@ivoa.net</a> on behalf of <a href="mailto:laurent.michel@astro.unistra.fr" target="_blank">laurent.michel@astro.unistra.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Hello<br>
<br>
AS questioned by Mark Upper/Lower limits are not Error terms. There are detection thresholds.<br>
<br>
UpperLimit: If it was a source here it would have a flux below the upper limit<br>
- instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.max ??<br>
<br>
Lower limit: If it was a source here it would have a flux above the lower limit<br>
- instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.min ??<br>
<br>
Laurent<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 27/07/2022 à 17:10, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :<br>
> Thanks Mireille,<br>
> <br>
> These are very similar to the current placeholders ( which mimic the StatErrorLow|High element ucds )<br>
> The main question I have about this was/is:<br>
> o is LowerLimit/UpperLimit conceptually considered an Error term?<br>
> If not, then perhaps the detection limit options are more appropriate.<br>
> <br>
> Mark<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 11:40 AM Mireille LOUYS <<a href="mailto:mireille.louys@unistra.fr" target="_blank">mireille.louys@unistra.fr</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:mireille.louys@unistra.fr" target="_blank">mireille.louys@unistra.fr</a>>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Dear dmers,<br>
> <br>
> just on the UCD assignation , I have another suggestion for /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit /<br>
> which also validates in the UCD builder tool (<a href="http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd" target="_blank">http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd</a><br>
> <<a href="http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd" target="_blank">http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd</a>> ) and contains the flux information:<br>
> stat.error;phot.flux;stat.min<br>
> <br>
> /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit/ whould also have this UCD<br>
> stat.error;phot.flux;stat.max<br>
> <br>
> Thanks , Mireille,<br>
> for the UCD maintenance committee.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Le 21/07/2022 à 20:22, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :<br>
>> Hi,<br>
>><br>
>> Follow-up on the UCD topic. I've started a new Issue in the repository<br>
>> <<a href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/SpectrumDM/issues/5" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa-std/SpectrumDM/issues/5</a>> for this, so it can be worked outside of the structural model changes.<br>
>> The primary objective is to select the proper terms for the new elements.. I'm not sure if we need to go outside this list<br>
>> for that, but I'm hoping Vandana and Petr can get some review on this and provide feedback.<br>
>><br>
>> The following shows the UCDs put into this PR, and the suggested values per the UCD Builder utility.<br>
>><br>
>> * Data.SpectralAxis.order => "instr.order"<br>
>> * Data.SpectralAxis.relorder => "instr.order"<br>
>> o UCD builder suggests: "stat.variance;instr.order" for both, though "instr.order" can stand on its own.<br>
>> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit => "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.min" (Same as StatErrorLow)<br>
>> o UCD builder suggests:<br>
>> + "statistical lower limit" -> "stat.value;stat.min"<br>
>> + "detection lower limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.min"<br>
>> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit => "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.max" (Same as StatErrorHigh)<br>
>> o UCD builder suggests:<br>
>> + "statistical upper limit" -> "stat.value;stat.max"<br>
>> + "detection upper limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.max"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Mark<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> --<br>
> Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)<br>
> Centre de données CDS IPSEO, Images, Laboratoire Icube<br>
> Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg<br>
> 11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413<br>
> F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex<br>
> Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34<br>
> <br>
<br>
--<br>
English version: https: //<a href="http://www.deepl.com/translator" target="_blank">www.deepl.com/translator</a><br>
-- <br>
jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles/Berlin<br>
<br>
Laurent Michel<br>
SSC XMM-Newton<br>
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Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32<br>
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