solar coordinate systems, VOEvent and the IVOA

Frank Hill hill at noao.edu
Thu May 18 14:24:17 PDT 2006


Bill's comments are all good, but there is one more detail
-- depth below the photosphere, or height above it. For
me, and for the helioseismology crowd, that is Z. So,
Longitude, Latitude, and Depth might be an alternative
coordinate system.

F Hill




On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:05:00 -0400
   William Thompson <William.T.Thompson.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov>
wrote:
 > Dear VO community:
 >
 > When I wrote my paper, "Coordinate systems for solar
 >image data", I tried to tie together existing usage
 >within various members of the solar community, which
 >don't always come from the same traditions.  The question
 >is raised whether there's a bifurcation between the solar
 >and planetary communities.  In my view, it's really of a
 >bifurcation between imaging and non-imaging uses of
 >coordinate systems.
 >
 > When one examines a 2D photograph of the Sun, it's
 >common practice within the solar community to label the
 >East-West axis as "X", and the North-South axis as "Y".
 > These are really angles rather than distances, but
 >they're often treated interchangeably.  In my paper, I
 >use the notation X and Y as an intermediate step, to
 >connect my discussion to current practice within FITS
 >files, but the ultimate axis labels refer to longitude
 >and latitude rather than X, Y, or Z.
 >
 > I also reference F&H in my paper, and outline a
 >methodology for specifying the viewing position within
 >FITS headers.  Those keywords use the standard coordinate
 >systems used within the planetary community, all of which
 >have Z along the axis of rotation.  I also describe how
 >the intermediate heliocentric-cartesian coordinates of my
 >paper are related to the standard
 >Radial-Tangential-Normal (RTN) coordinates used within
 >the planetary community, which is just a notational
 >difference.
 >
 > I think the proper course to take is quite clear.
 > Positional information should always be given in
 >standard coordinates as described in F&H, such as HEE,
 >HEEQ, etc.  Directional vectors (e.g. solar wind
 >velocity) would also be given in these coordinate
 >systems, or in a spacecraft-centered coordinate system
 >such as RTN (also described in F&H).  All of these have Z
 >along the axis of rotation.
 >
 > Angular directional information, such as in images,
 >should be given as longitude and latitude.  My paper
 >defines two different angular coordinate systems,
 >helioprojective-cartesian (HPLN/HPLT) and
 >helioprojective-radial (HRLN/HRLT), as well as
 >heliographic coordinates (HGLN/HGLT, CRLN/CRLT).  This is
 >the purpose of my paper--I never intended that the
 >intermediate heliocentric coordinates I describe supplant
 >the standard heliospheric coordinate systems such as RTN.
 >
 > Within the STEREO project, we're using
 >helioprojective-cartesian coordinates for the solar
 >images, and the F&H coordinate systems (including RTN)
 >for orbital position and solar wind measurements.
 >
 > Bill Thompson
 >
 >
 > Joseph B. Gurman wrote:
 >>     Bill -
 >>
 >>     Comments?
 >>
 >>     Thanks,
 >>
 >>                         Joe
 >>
 >>> X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
 >>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 17:32:59 +0100 (BST)
 >>> From: Elizabeth Auden <eca at mssl.ucl.ac.uk>
 >>> To: hill at noao.edu, gurman at gsfc.nasa.gov,
 >>>hurlburt at lmsal.comm
 >>> Subject: solar coordinate systems, VOEvent and the IVOA
 >>>
 >>> Hi guys,
 >>>
 >>> I received this message from the IVOA VOEvent mailing
 >>>list. Arnold
 >>> Rots is asking about the solar community's preference
 >>>for coordinate
 >>> systems - do you have any comments to the message below?
 >>>You can reply
 >>> directly to the VOEvent mailing list (voevent at ivoa.net)
 >>>or to me if
 >>> you like. I believe there will be at least one session
 >>>discussing the
 >>> VOEvent schema at the IVOA interoperability meeting in
 >>>Canada next
 >>> week (unfortunately, I'm not going, but Silvia Dalla
 >>>will be
 >>> championing the solar cause).
 >>>
 >>> Thanks for your comments, and I hope you're having a
 >>>great time in
 >>> Sicily if you're at SOHO-17 this week.
 >>>
 >>> cheers,
 >>> Elizabeth
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> Elizabeth Auden, MSSL
 >>> Holmbury St. Mary, Dorking RH5 6NT
 >>> Tel: +44 (0)1483 204 276
 >>> eSDO Technical Lead, AstroGrid Developer
 >>>
 >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
 >>> Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 12:03:47 -0400 (EDT)
 >>> From: Arnold Rots <arots at head.cfa.harvard.edu>
 >>> To: Elizabeth Auden <eca at mssl.ucl.ac.uk>
 >>> Cc: Rob Seaman <seaman at noao.edu>, IVOA List VOEvent
 >>><voevent at ivoa.net>
 >>> Subject: Re: VOEvent 1.1 new draft with STC elaboration
 >>>
 >>> I have been talking with Ed DeLuca here, who is working
 >>>on Solar-B,
 >>> and this has exposed some problems that should be
 >>>addressed soon.
 >>> The solar coordinate systems in STC were largely based
 >>>on Fraenz &
 >>> Harper, including some of the Hapgood systems: HEE,
 >>>HEEQ, HCI, and
 >>> HCD, in addition to a generic Heliographic.
 >>> But then there is Bill Thompson's FITS WCS paper on
 >>>solar coordinate
 >>> systems which, in general, tends to put the z axis along
 >>>the
 >>> observer-sun line (as opposed to the x axis in F&H).  It
 >>>also became
 >>> clear that helioprojective coordinates may need to be
 >>>represented.
 >>>
 >>> I'd like the solar community to tell us whether there is
 >>>a consensus:
 >>> should I go with the Thompson systems?  are these the
 >>>ones that are
 >>> most commonly used?
 >>> Or are we seeing here a bifurcation between solar and
 >>>planetary types,
 >>> with the former's customs represented by Thompson, the
 >>>latter's by F&H?
 >>> What coordinate frames would solar and planetary people
 >>>really like to
 >>> see?
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Thanks,
 >>>
 >>>   - Arnold
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Elizabeth Auden wrote:
 >>>
 >>>>>> Elizabeth Auden (MSSL/AstroGrid) and myself have an
 >>>>>>interest in
 >>>>>> VOEvent
 >>>>>> applied to solar events. I will be at the IVOA interop
 >>>>>>meeting next
 >>>>>> week.
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> And Frank Hill spoke on solar transients at VOEvent II
 >>>>>(http://
 >>>>> www.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VoeventWorkshop2).
 >>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> I followed up with Frank Hill and Neal Hurlburt about
 >>>>solar VOEvents
 >>>> this
 >>>> past February at an SDO workshop. They're both
 >>>>interested in developing
 >>>> solar VOEvents as well, and Neal in particular is
 >>>>working on a VOEvent
 >>>> packet for Solar-B data.
 >>>>
 >>>> Elizabeth
 >>>>
 >>>> --
 >>>> Elizabeth Auden, MSSL
 >>>> Holmbury St. Mary, Dorking RH5 6NT
 >>>> Tel: +44 (0)1483 204 276
 >>>> eSDO Technical Lead, AstroGrid Developer
 >>>>
 >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >>>
 >>> Arnold H. Rots                                Chandra
 >>>X-ray Science
 >>> Center
 >>> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory
 >>>               tel:  +1 617 496
 >>> 7701
 >>> 60 Garden Street, MS 67
 >>>                             fax:  +1 617 495
 >>> 7356
 >>> Cambridge, MA 02138
 >>> arots at head.cfa.harvard.edu
 >>> USA
 >>> http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
 >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 >>>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >
 > --
 > William Thompson
 > NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
 > Code 612.1
 > Greenbelt, MD  20771
 > USA
 >
 > 301-286-2040
 > William.T.Thompson.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov




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