[SEMANTICS] Re: semantics

Franck Le Petit Franck.LePetit at obspm.fr
Mon Jun 19 08:53:51 PDT 2006


	Dear members of the theory group.

	Now that the deadline of the 16th of june is behind us, we would  
like to suggest a modification of the Twiki page concerning Semantics  
to continue the structuration of the informations.
	We would like to add to the main items further informations which  
should be required when we will ask to the semantic group to add UCDs  
as :
	- Is the item a required information or an optinal one for  
registration ?
	- Are multiple choice possible or not ?
	- Do the values associated to the UCDs have to be choosen from a  
given list or not and if yes, from which list ?
	
	You will find below what we suggest for the presentation (a mixture  
of our previous email with some new inputs as well as Bernard  
Debray's last comments). The list of words on the present twiki page  
could be found at the end.

	Apart these modifications we see several difficulties up to now :
	1 -	for the algorithms, the list may become very very long and so  
unusable for an efficient search in the registries. A solution has to  
be find...

	2 -	Bernard Debray mentionned a very nice problem adding to the  
twiki page "Stellar synthesis Populations" in "physical processes".
		This is neither a "physical process", nor an "algorithm", nor a  
"subject". But that is the way everybody call such codes.
		It may be possible to cover such codes with  "subject =  
Galaxies:Content" (if we want to use the thesaurus.). But who would  
think to do a search this way ?
		I think I mentionned this difficulty with "PDR codes" which, as  
stellar synthesis populations codes cover many physical processes.
		Should not we add a new item "Category of code" to cover large  
domains of codes with a finite list of possibilities as :
			- Large structures formation
			- Hydrodynamic
			- MHD
			- Stellar synthesis populations
			- PDR
			- Numerical Relativity
			- Radiative transfer
			- ...

		In some cases, the value associated could be the same as in  
"physical processes" but not always as for "stellar population  
synthesis".   It would help a lot the search in registries.

	3 - 	The item "Result parameters" seems unuseful for the  
registration of codes. It may be useful for the registration of  
simulation results but it is completly linked to the datamodel  
describing the simulation results. So I suggest to forget it for the  
moment.

	4 - 	I added a new item "Description" where it would be possible to  
add an ASCII text describing the code. This exist yet in the  
registration of any VO service in the present registries. I do not  
know if the registries will allow to search by words in such  
description. Does anybody know if we plan to have in the VO  a tool  
as "spotlight" in the Mac OS X which is able to find any document  
when we give it a few words contained in this document ?


	Best regards
	Franck Le Petit & Fabrice Roy

	   -------------------------------------------------------------------
	Observatoire of Paris
	LUTH - Laboratory Universe and Theories
             
--------------------------------------------------------------------




======================================================================== 
================================
Suggestion for the new twiki page
======================================================================== 
================================


For each main items :
	- Description of the content of the UCD
	- Information on the content :
		- Is it a required information or an optional one
		- Are multiple choices possible
		- Do  the informations have to be choosed in a list and if yes,  
from which list
	- Note : a place where to discuss on the twiki page each main item.

Note : need to specify the differences between what is required to  
register codes and results from simulation.

Remark :  Required informations to register a code or a simulation  
result are not exactly the same. In the latter case, parameters of  
the simulation have to be specified which is not true for the  
registration of the code.


======================================================================== 
=================================
Main Items
======================================================================== 
=================================


Items required to register a code :
1 - Name of the code
2 - Name of the developper / team / contact
3 - Version of the code
4 - Description of the code
5 - Physical processes
6 - Subject
7 -  Algorithm
8 - Time evolution
9 - Type of results
10 - Results format
11 - Associated tools
12 - Web address

Items required to register simulation results :
1 - Name of the dataset
2 - Name of the developpers / team / contact
3 - Version of the dataset
4 - Description
5 - Physical processes
6 - Subject
7 - Algorithm
8 - Time evolution
9 - Type of results
10 - Results formats
11 - Associated tools
12 - Web address
13 - Provenance
14 - Results parameters


 From 1 to 12 it is similar to the registration of codes.
13 - Provenance : should give access to the code used to produce the  
dataset (optional in case of simulation results coming from a code  
not described in the VO)
14 - Result parameters : should give the parameters corresponding to  
the production of the simulation results. It is difficult to discuss  
this item now since it is directly linked to datamodels that we do  
not have now.



1 --- Name of the code  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------
	Description : Give the name of the code
	Required : YES
	Multiple choice : NO
	List : NO
	Examples : Zeus, Ramses, Cloudy , ....
	Note : A UCD seems to exist : meta.id


2 --- Name of the developpers / team / contact  
-------------------------------------------------------------------
	Description : Give the name of the developpers
	Required : Yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : no
	Examples : Albert E.
	Note : 1 - Implementation done. UCD is meta.curation

3 --- Version of the code  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------------
	Type:
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : no
	List : no
	Examples :
	Note :
		- Hervé suggested to use common standards for versionning
		- A UCD seems to exist for that : meta.version

4 --- Description of the code  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------
	Description : ASCII text describing the code / the simulation results
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : no
	List : no list
	Note : Should be covered by the UCD meta.note (?)


5 --- Physical Process  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------------------------
       	Description :  General keywords to describe the physical  
processes that the code deal with
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : MNRAS keywords, section "Physical data and processes" :   
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/pdf/mnraskey.pdf
	Examples : MHD, radiative transfer, molecular processes,  
gravitation, ...
	Note : To avoid problems of synonyms during the search a list may be  
required. In the list on the former twiki page, nearly all words can  
be found in the thesaurus but sometimes the meaning is not as precise  
as we would wish. Does it seem sufficient ?


6 --- Subject  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------------------------------------
       	Description : General keywords describing the kind of objects  
the code can deal with
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : MNRAS keywords : http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/pdf/ 
mnraskey.pdf
	Examples : Star, Galaxy, Large scale structures, Molecular clouds, ...
	Note :  1 -  Advange to use a list is that the search should be  
easier since it will avoid synonyms
   		   2 -  All words can be found in the thesaurus.

7 ----  
Algorithm	-------------------------------------------------------------- 
------------------------------------------
	Description : Most important algorithms in the code
	Required : optional
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : Yes but has to be defined
	Examples : nbody, tree, sph, Ali, ...
	Note :  1 - A list is necessary for an efficient search or we will  
have troubles with specific numerical methods and synonyms
		   2 - On the other hand, new algorithms can be found and a fixed  
list is a problem.
			Example :In radiative transfer it is necessary to specify  
algorithm. Up to now the main ones were : LVG, Monte-Carlo and Ali.   
But recently Moshe Elitzur for Kentucky university has just found a  
new revolutionnary method called CEP. How would it be possible to add  
this to a fixed list ?
                      3 - I choosed to group algorithm and time  
evolution algorithm. As numericians we clearly do the difference  
between the two, but this separation may not be required in the  
registries. Since multiple-choice are possible for this item, the  
time evolution algorithm should be

8 ---- Time evolution  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------------------------
	Description : Flag saying if the code is stationnar or time dependant
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : 2 possibilities : yes or no


9 ---- Type of result  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
---------------------------

	Description : Give the type of results :
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : yes
			- table
			- VO-table
			- spectre
			- VO-spectre
			- snapshot
			- animation
			- fits
			- catalog
                             - statistics
         Note : 1 - The list has to be completed.
                     2 - Should we add to the list : "rawdata" for  
binary results from a simulation ?


10 --- Results formats  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-------------------------
	Description : Give the format of the results
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : yes
		- ASCII / binary
		- HDF5
		- giff, jpeg, ...
		- mpeg4, quicktime, ...
	Note : This information could be usefull to find a code producing  
outputs in a specific format to be plug in a workflow.	

11 --- Associated tools  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------------
	Description : give the name in the VO registries of associated tools  
to the code
	Required : no
	Multiple choice : yes
	List : no
	Note : 1 - This would be usefull if a user looking for a code could  
find with the description of the code, associated VO-service for this  
code. For example the name/acess to a theoretical database of results  
produced by this code, or the name of another code used to analyse  
the results of the first code.


12 --- Web Adress  
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
----------------------------
	Description : give the web address where to access the code /  
simulation result
	Required : yes
	Multiple choice : no
	List : no
	Note : A UCD exists for that : meta.ref.url

===========================================================
Simulation results
===========================================================


13 - Provenance
	Description : Give the name of the code used to produce the  
theoretical data
	Required : Optional
	Multiple : No (yes for results from the combination of 2 codes ? )
	List : no
	Note : 1 - Optional since the code used to produce the data may not  
be registered


14 - Results parameters
	Description : Give the parameters used to produce the data
	Required : yes
	Mutliple : yes
	List : no
	Note: 1 - Maybe it is too early to know how to deal with this item  
since it is directly linked to datamodel(s)
		

======================================================================== 
======
B **** Thesaurus Keywords
======================================================================== 
======

Do the keywords of the thesaurus cover all the physical processes :


                                             Thesaurus
                radiative  
transfer                                                           Yes
                 gravitational  
dynamics                                                Gravitation
                 GR What does GR means ? (General Relat. ?)      
relativity
                  
hydrodynamics                                                            
   Yes
                 fluid  
dynamics                                                               W 
hat is the difference with hydro ?
                plasma  
physics                                                               
Plasma
                magneto- 
hydrodynamics                                            Yes
                stellar  
evolution                                                             
No --- see subject below
                stellar population  
synthesis                                       No --- see subject below
                  
photoionization                                                          
    atomic processes / molecular processes
                  
photodissociation                                                        
  molecular processes
physical process (secondary?)
	hydrostatic equilibrium (atmosphere?)                  No (but may  
be covered by an hydrodynamics physical process and a stationnary  
algorithm)
	

==============================================================
subject

===============================================================



             
Subject                                                                  
         Thesaurus

            
star                                                                     
             star:individual:
             
stars                                                                    
            stars:
            stellar  
clusters                                                             
galaxies: star clusters
             
galaxy                                                                   
         galaxies :
           volume of space
           accretion disc(k)
            
jet                                                                      
                ISM: jets and outflows
           interstellar  
medium                                                     ISM
           molecular  
cloud                                                           ISM :  
clouds
           atmosphere (of planet, exo-planet, star...)               
stars:atmosphere, nothing for planet atmosphere
           stellar evolution					  stars: evolution
          stellar population  
synthesis                                        stars: evolution /  
galaxy: evolution (?)

===============================================================
Algorithm
===============================================================

	    	*  nbody (What does it mean ? particle-particle ? )
     		* mesh
     		* collisionless (not an algorithm ? - just a physical  
approach ? )
     		* eulerian grid
     		* lagrangian grid
     		* tree
     		* adaptive refinement mesh
     		* adaptive refinement tree
     		* sph
     		* tree-sph
     		* pppm
     		* pm
     		* pp (What is "nbody" compare to pp ? )
     		* fokker-planck codes
     		* vlasov solvers
     		* orbit solver
     		* pic (particle in cell)
     		* tree-pm
     		* scf (self consistent field)
     		* ffm (fast multipole method)
     		* schwarzschild
     		* ppm (piecewise parabolic method)
     		* plm (piecewise linear method = godunov)
     		* Isochrone synthesis
     		* Fuel consuption theorem
                    * Spectral method

		* Radiative transfer code :
			* ETL
			* LVG
			* Monte-Carlo
			* ALI
			* CEP

		
              o leap frog
       	    o individual timesteps
       	    o static
       	    o adaptative timesteps
          	   o runge-kutta
         	   o symplectic integrator
                Gear
	      Predictor/Corrector

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.ivoa.net/pipermail/theory/attachments/20060619/ec3cb866/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the theory mailing list