Agenda Changes: ImageDM discussion during Education I
Rots, Arnold
arots at cfa.harvard.edu
Wed Jun 5 11:57:48 PDT 2013
Jesus,
I heard no such announcement and I had to be at the DCP session.
I have yet to see an Interop meeting schedule where the parallel session
work out well...
- Arnold
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 6:50 AM, Jesus Salgado
<Jesus.Salgado at sciops.esa.int>wrote:
> Hi Arnold,
> I am a little bit puzzled.
> We announced it in the plenary room and there was nobody at room 106
> during the discussion.
>
> We finally decided to include the ImageDM discussion at the end of the
>
> DAL III - discussion of time series focus session
>
> as many of the people involved were the same one.
> (I thought you were there (?))
>
> We will send an email next time.
> Cheers,
> Jesus
>
>
> On Tue, 2013-06-04 at 09:48 -0400, Rots, Arnold wrote:
> > I suppose I was - but I heard or saw no announcement of when and where
> > this was
> >
> > going to happen and no one told me. There was a glaring lack of
> > communication.
> >
> > - Arnold
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:15 AM, François Bonnarel
> > <francois.bonnarel at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
> > Hi Arnold,Hi everybody,
> > Le 17/05/2013 09:46, Rots, Arnold a écrit :
> >
> > I presented these two alternatives for an open discussion. But
> > you were in another room !!!
> >
> > Best regards
> > François
> >
> >
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray
> > Science Center
> > Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617
> > 496 7701
> > 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1
> > 617 495 7356
> > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> > USA
> > http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:15 AM, François Bonnarel
> > <francois.bonnarel at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
> > Hi Arnold,Hi everybody,
> > Le 17/05/2013 09:46, Rots, Arnold a écrit :
> > > Since that session was not really completed (or, if it did,
> > > I wasn't able to find out where and when), I posted some
> > > comments on the DM sessions Twiki page, in the form of
> > > some slides regarding the implementation of WCS in STC.
> > > You may recall that Francois asserted that there was no
> > > such support.
> > This is not true. I said it could be difficult or heavy in the
> > first DAL session. But I didn't say there was no support. In
> > the small Image DM session I presented slides (there are on
> > the DM Heidelberg session page) where I proposed STC utypes
> > for the ref pos and the CDmatrix and projection. I identified
> > Cart2DRefFrame as the package to do that. And I also
> > identified PixelCoordSystem as the package able to describe
> > the Reference pixel (CRPIX). I didn't notice your slides at
> > that moment, sorry. Below I discuss your example in term of
> > ImageDM utypes (path utypes) to be used in DAL services query
> > responses.
> >
> > > There is; see: table 4, Appendix A, and the
> > > example in Appendix B.2.
> > > The main issue is that STC data model was designed to
> > > provide a
> > > characterization of the data it referred to along its
> > > coordinates.
> > > Part of that was the WCS projection.
> > > When the characterization role is rejected and one starts
> > > cherry-picking pieces from the data model, it becomes more
> > > difficult to put the WCS information back in, since the
> > > integrity
> > > of the data model has been lost.
> > > To be blunt: the WCS support is there, but the way you
> > > choose
> > > to use STC may make it very difficult to take advantage of
> > > it.
> > If we think to provide WCS (or Mapping) for an image along the
> > lines of the example in your slides what would be the utypes ?
> > I found those with their equivalent WCS FITS Keywords
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.Cart2DrefFrame.projection
> > ---> second part of CTYPE
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.Cart2DrefFrame.Transform2
> > ----> "CDELT" keywords
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.CoordRefPos.Vector2DCoordinate
> ----> "CRVAL" Keywords
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.CARTESIAN.naxes ----> NAXES
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Name1
> > ----> First part of CTYPE1
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Name2
> > -----> First part of CTYPE2
> > PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Value2
> > ------> CRPIX Keywords
> >
> > Of course this works. The STC/WCS solution I had in mind was a
> > little different because WCS is actually at least a two step
> > transformation
> > Sphere ------> projected plane (Wolrld coordinates to
> > "standard" coordinates)
> > projected plane ----> pixel plane
> > I thought the first transformation is best rendered
> > SEMANTICALLY by a real AstroCoordSystem with a Custom
> > Cart2DSpaceRefFrame and a Custom RefPos. These features do not
> > really belong to Pixel space in my sense.
> > Then the second transformation (using the matrix/CDELT
> > Transform2 and Pixel reference position) could be rendered by
> > the PixelCoordinateSystem
> >
> > Alternatively I also proposed the Mapping stuff as it is done
> > in the ImageDM draft. Something much closer the organisation
> > of WCS keywords like
> >
> > Mapping.CoordRefPixel
> > Mapping.CDmatrix
> > Mapping.Projection
> > etc...
> >
> >
> > I presented these two alternatives for an open discussion. But
> > you were in another room !!!
> >
> > Best regards
> > François
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > >
> > > - Arnold
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Jesus Salgado
> > > <jsalgado at sciops.esa.int> wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > Massimo Ramella has kindly provided part of the time
> > > of his Education 1 session on
> > > Thursday 11:00–12:30 to finish the discussion on
> > > ImageDM draft that we were having
> > > during DM1 session.
> > >
> > > That means, we will have F. Bonnarel presentation
> > > that could not give today plus
> > > the brainstorming.
> > >
> > > Please take note of that :)
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jesus
> > >
> > > This message and any attachments are intended for
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Arnold H. Rots
> > > Chandra X-ray Science Center
> > > Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel:
> > > +1 617 496 7701
> > > 60 Garden Street, MS 67
> > > fax: +1 617 495 7356
> > > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> > > USA
> > > http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray
> > Science Center
> > Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617
> > 496 7701
> > 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1
> > 617 495 7356
> > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> > USA
> > http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> --
> Jesus J. SALGADO Jesus.Salgado at sciops.esa.int
>
> European Space Agency (ESA)
> European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC)
> Science Operations Department (SRE-O)
> Science Archives and Computer Support Engineering Unit (SRE-OE)
>
> European Space Agency/European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC)
> P.O. Box 78
> 28691 Villanueva de la Canada Tel: +34 91 813 12 71
> Madrid - SPAIN Fax: +34 91 813 13 08
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray
Science Center
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617 496
7701
60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1 617
495 7356
Cambridge, MA 02138
arots at cfa.harvard.edu
USA
http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
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