Agenda Changes: ImageDM discussion during Education I
Jesus Salgado
Jesus.Salgado at sciops.esa.int
Wed Jun 5 03:50:16 PDT 2013
Hi Arnold,
I am a little bit puzzled.
We announced it in the plenary room and there was nobody at room 106
during the discussion.
We finally decided to include the ImageDM discussion at the end of the
DAL III - discussion of time series focus session
as many of the people involved were the same one.
(I thought you were there (?))
We will send an email next time.
Cheers,
Jesus
On Tue, 2013-06-04 at 09:48 -0400, Rots, Arnold wrote:
> I suppose I was - but I heard or saw no announcement of when and where
> this was
>
> going to happen and no one told me. There was a glaring lack of
> communication.
>
> - Arnold
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:15 AM, François Bonnarel
> <francois.bonnarel at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
> Hi Arnold,Hi everybody,
> Le 17/05/2013 09:46, Rots, Arnold a écrit :
>
> I presented these two alternatives for an open discussion. But
> you were in another room !!!
>
> Best regards
> François
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray
> Science Center
> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617
> 496 7701
> 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1
> 617 495 7356
> Cambridge, MA 02138
> arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> USA
> http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 5:15 AM, François Bonnarel
> <francois.bonnarel at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
> Hi Arnold,Hi everybody,
> Le 17/05/2013 09:46, Rots, Arnold a écrit :
> > Since that session was not really completed (or, if it did,
> > I wasn't able to find out where and when), I posted some
> > comments on the DM sessions Twiki page, in the form of
> > some slides regarding the implementation of WCS in STC.
> > You may recall that Francois asserted that there was no
> > such support.
> This is not true. I said it could be difficult or heavy in the
> first DAL session. But I didn't say there was no support. In
> the small Image DM session I presented slides (there are on
> the DM Heidelberg session page) where I proposed STC utypes
> for the ref pos and the CDmatrix and projection. I identified
> Cart2DRefFrame as the package to do that. And I also
> identified PixelCoordSystem as the package able to describe
> the Reference pixel (CRPIX). I didn't notice your slides at
> that moment, sorry. Below I discuss your example in term of
> ImageDM utypes (path utypes) to be used in DAL services query
> responses.
>
> > There is; see: table 4, Appendix A, and the
> > example in Appendix B.2.
> > The main issue is that STC data model was designed to
> > provide a
> > characterization of the data it referred to along its
> > coordinates.
> > Part of that was the WCS projection.
> > When the characterization role is rejected and one starts
> > cherry-picking pieces from the data model, it becomes more
> > difficult to put the WCS information back in, since the
> > integrity
> > of the data model has been lost.
> > To be blunt: the WCS support is there, but the way you
> > choose
> > to use STC may make it very difficult to take advantage of
> > it.
> If we think to provide WCS (or Mapping) for an image along the
> lines of the example in your slides what would be the utypes ?
> I found those with their equivalent WCS FITS Keywords
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.Cart2DrefFrame.projection
> ---> second part of CTYPE
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.Cart2DrefFrame.Transform2
> ----> "CDELT" keywords
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.CoordRefPos.Vector2DCoordinate ----> "CRVAL" Keywords
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.CARTESIAN.naxes ----> NAXES
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Name1
> ----> First part of CTYPE1
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Name2
> -----> First part of CTYPE2
> PixelCoordSystem.PixelCoordFrame.ReferencePixel.Pixel2D.Value2
> ------> CRPIX Keywords
>
> Of course this works. The STC/WCS solution I had in mind was a
> little different because WCS is actually at least a two step
> transformation
> Sphere ------> projected plane (Wolrld coordinates to
> "standard" coordinates)
> projected plane ----> pixel plane
> I thought the first transformation is best rendered
> SEMANTICALLY by a real AstroCoordSystem with a Custom
> Cart2DSpaceRefFrame and a Custom RefPos. These features do not
> really belong to Pixel space in my sense.
> Then the second transformation (using the matrix/CDELT
> Transform2 and Pixel reference position) could be rendered by
> the PixelCoordinateSystem
>
> Alternatively I also proposed the Mapping stuff as it is done
> in the ImageDM draft. Something much closer the organisation
> of WCS keywords like
>
> Mapping.CoordRefPixel
> Mapping.CDmatrix
> Mapping.Projection
> etc...
>
>
> I presented these two alternatives for an open discussion. But
> you were in another room !!!
>
> Best regards
> François
>
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > - Arnold
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Jesus Salgado
> > <jsalgado at sciops.esa.int> wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Massimo Ramella has kindly provided part of the time
> > of his Education 1 session on
> > Thursday 11:00–12:30 to finish the discussion on
> > ImageDM draft that we were having
> > during DM1 session.
> >
> > That means, we will have F. Bonnarel presentation
> > that could not give today plus
> > the brainstorming.
> >
> > Please take note of that :)
> > Cheers,
> > Jesus
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Arnold H. Rots
> > Chandra X-ray Science Center
> > Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel:
> > +1 617 496 7701
> > 60 Garden Street, MS 67
> > fax: +1 617 495 7356
> > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> > USA
> > http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Arnold H. Rots Chandra X-ray
> Science Center
> Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory tel: +1 617
> 496 7701
> 60 Garden Street, MS 67 fax: +1
> 617 495 7356
> Cambridge, MA 02138
> arots at cfa.harvard.edu
> USA
> http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
--
Jesus J. SALGADO Jesus.Salgado at sciops.esa.int
European Space Agency (ESA)
European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC)
Science Operations Department (SRE-O)
Science Archives and Computer Support Engineering Unit (SRE-OE)
European Space Agency/European Space Astronomy Centre (ESAC)
P.O. Box 78
28691 Villanueva de la Canada Tel: +34 91 813 12 71
Madrid - SPAIN Fax: +34 91 813 13 08
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