[Edu] edu Digest, Vol 1, Issue 1
ANA INES GOMEZ DE CASTRO
anai_gomez at mat.ucm.es
Thu Oct 24 12:09:20 PDT 2013
Dear Maximo,
you are all referring to a document. I've just joined your mailing list.
Could you please, send me the link?
Cheers, Ana
Prof. Ana I Gomez de Castro
Universidad Complutense de Madrid
2013/10/24 <edu-request at ivoa.net>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. (my) first comments on the note (Massimo Ramella)
> 2. FW: Another point we should have talked about (Gretchen Greene)
> 3. register me, please (Alyssa Goodman)
> 4. Re: Another point we should have talked about (Markus Demleitner)
> 5. Re: Another point we should have talked about (Marco Molinaro)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 16:27:03 +0200
> From: Massimo Ramella <ramella at oats.inaf.it>
> To: edu at ivoa.net
> Subject: [Edu] (my) first comments on the note
> Message-ID: <525FF3B7.2030109 at oats.inaf.it>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed
>
> *This is a message that I orginally sent to a small group of persons
> involved in the first draft of the note
>
> http://volute.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/projects/edu/edumatters/edumatters-fmt.html*
>
> Hi!
>
> I have the following comments/questions about the content of the note:
>
> 1) ContentLevel: seems to me that the value "General" may be quite
> useless. Since ContentLevel is supposed to filter resources, a value
> "General" would not help much being all inclusive. On the other hand,
> the subdivision into elementary,....,University is also quite useless
> given the large variety of curricula in different schoolsystems. The
> difference between curricula is large in Europe, and very large between
> schools of all IVOA member countries. Therefore what is at a highschool
> level somewhere may be middle school or university somewhere else. This
> was the comment :-) The question is: Would it be possible to have
> "Education" together with Research and Amateur?
>
> 2) it seems to me that the note implies that educational resources other
> than data (i.e. docs,tutorials,videos....) should be those internal to
> VO (like the tutorials used in VO schools, for example). Is it so? I
> would strongly support a wider collection of documents. One example of
> document that should be possible to find within VO Edu is the attached
> guide of Pedro Osuna (he gave it to me asking if it was ok to include it
> among VO resources, even if VO is only tangentially involved and the
> cover is corporate ESA -- btw I told Pedro that in my opinion the guide
> should definitely by collected among VO Edu resources).
>
> 3) another point that is not clear to me is if we think that we should
> also preserve Edu resources by mirroring (or hosting) them on our VO
> servers. Personally, I think that we should keep these resources (or
> mirror them). Many projects produce very valuable resources but have a
> short independent life (one to few years) and it is a general waste to
> have their products be forgotten somewhere (or even deleted).
>
> Well...I think this is it...I hope my comments/questions can be useful,
> given the I can not really contribute anything software-side....
>
> Cheers
>
> Massimo
>
> --
> Massimo Ramella
> INAF-Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste
> via G.B. Tiepolo 11
> I34143 Trieste
> Italia
>
> tel. +39 040 3199 140
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:52:31 +0000
> From: Gretchen Greene <greene at stsci.edu>
> To: "edu at ivoa.net" <edu at ivoa.net>
> Subject: [Edu] FW: Another point we should have talked about
> Message-ID:
> <F4391FEBF3C01E499F244DFA4B689A6B26FD1256 at EXCHMAIL1.stsci.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Gretchen Greene
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:32 AM
> To: Markus; Massimo Ramella
> Cc: Marco Molinaro; Christophe Arviset; Louys Mireille;
> Pierre.LeSidaner at obspm.fr; S?verin Gaudet
> Subject: RE: Another point we should have talked about
>
> Hi folks,
>
> sorry to chime in late, while I understand adding a new enumeration to
> the Registry Resource contentLevel, i.e. "Education" is a change to the
> schema, it is a very minor change and I believe we should be able to adapt
> to this type of feature addition. If we want to use the registry and
> support any form of VO users/client tools search on educational resources,
> this is the right place to do so.
>
> -Gretchen
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Markus [msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 7:12 AM
> To: Massimo Ramella
> Cc: Marco Molinaro; Christophe Arviset; Louys Mireille;
> Pierre.LeSidaner at obspm.fr; Gretchen Greene; S?verin Gaudet
> Subject: Re: Another point we should have talked about
>
> Massimo,
>
> First, if you're ok with the draft as it is now, I believe it should
> be announced on the edu-IG list, and this discussion should be taken
> there; consensus on questions like these should be reached in public
> (one reason being that you can then reference answers as questions
> arise again, which they are wont to do).
>
> Having said that, in brief my POVs:
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:06:08PM +0200, Massimo Ramella wrote:
>
> > 1) ContentLevel: seems to me that the value "General" may be quite
> > useless. Since ContentLevel is supposed to filter resources, a value
> [...]
> > somewhere else. This was the comment :-) The question is: Would it
> > be possible to have "Education" together with Research and Amateur?
>
> I agree that "Education" would be more fitting than "General".
> However, having that would require a new schema, and that is, given
> the way we've built the registry schema files, a fairly disruptive
> change.
>
> Thus, it is our proposal to just *define* that "General" means
> "suitable for Educational purposeses including schools and continuing
> education."
>
> This little sleight of hand should severely reduce technological
> problems we might get with the adoption of our recommendations.
>
> > 2) it seems to me that the note implies that educational resources
> > other than data (i.e. docs,tutorials,videos....) should be those
> > internal to VO (like the tutorials used in VO schools, for example).
>
> What makes you think so? I'd say text suggesting that should be
> reformulated. It is at least my intention that people can register
> all kinds of document-like resources useful for VO users.
>
> > 3) another point that is not clear to me is if we think that we
> > should also preserve Edu resources by mirroring (or hosting) them on
> > our VO servers. Personally, I think that we should keep these
>
> I'n not quite sure what you mean by "our VO servers", so I cannot
> really comment on this. But talking about mirroring indeed raises a
> very valid point. It would certainly be worthwhile (of the note?) to
> have some sort of "best practices" recommendation of
> licensing the material in a way that invites mirroring. On the other
> hand, if we talk about mirroring, we might need to say something
> about versioning and how people can figure out whether something they
> find on a mirror is up to date.
>
> Which, come to think of it, might actually be a very valid use case.
> I'm adding it just now.
>
> [Massimo: I'm fine with including this text in an announcement mail
> over the edu-IG list in something like "Discussion has started
> off-list, and we want to bring it on-list now" or something like that
> if you think that's appropriate. If you don't want to do that, I'm
> fine with making them again, too]
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 14:33:25 -0400
> From: Alyssa Goodman <agoodman at cfa.harvard.edu>
> To: edu at ivoa.net
> Subject: [Edu] register me, please
> Message-ID: <5C2D1574-2A5C-4A64-AB30-8BE772D75D2A at cfa.harvard.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Thanks! A
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 23:16:15 +0200
> From: Markus Demleitner <msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de>
> To: edu at ivoa.net
> Subject: Re: [Edu] Another point we should have talked about
> Message-ID: <20131017211615.GA5147 at ari.uni-heidelberg.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Dear EDU IG,
>
> this is a slight edit of a privately circulated mail that was a
> reaction to Massimo's comments on
>
>
> http://volute.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/projects/edu/edumatters/edumatters-fmt.html
>
> -- I hope Massimo's points are still clear from the quotations.
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:06:08PM +0200, Massimo Ramella wrote:
>
> > 1) ContentLevel: seems to me that the value "General" may be quite
> > useless. Since ContentLevel is supposed to filter resources, a value
> [...]
> > somewhere else. This was the comment :-) The question is: Would it
> > be possible to have "Education" together with Research and Amateur?
>
> I agree that "Education" would be more fitting than "General".
> However, having that would require a new schema, and that is, given
> the way we've built the registry schema files, a fairly disruptive
> change.
>
> Thus, it is our proposal to just *define* that "General" means
> "suitable for Educational purposeses including schools and continuing
> education."
>
> This little sleight of hand should severely reduce technological
> problems we might get with the adoption of our recommendations.
>
> > 2) it seems to me that the note implies that educational resources
> > other than data (i.e. docs,tutorials,videos....) should be those
> > internal to VO (like the tutorials used in VO schools, for example).
>
> What makes you think so? I'd say text suggesting that should be
> reformulated. It is at least my intention that people can register
> all kinds of document-like resources useful for VO users.
>
> > 3) another point that is not clear to me is if we think that we
> > should also preserve Edu resources by mirroring (or hosting) them on
> > our VO servers. Personally, I think that we should keep these
>
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by "our VO servers", so I cannot
> really comment on this. But talking about mirroring indeed raises a
> very valid point. It would certainly be worthwhile (for the note?) to
> have some sort of "best practices" recommendation of
> licensing the material in a way that invites mirroring. On the other
> hand, if we talk about mirroring, we might need to say something
> about versioning and how people can figure out whether something they
> find on a mirror is up to date.
>
> Which, come to think of it, might actually be a very valid use case
> for the doc/edu registry extension. I'm adding it just now.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 16:54:19 +0200
> From: Marco Molinaro <molinaro at oats.inaf.it>
> To: edu at ivoa.net, Markus Demleitner <msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de>,
> "Gaudet, Severin" <severin.gaudet at nrc-cnrc.gc.ca>,
> Christophe Arviset
> <Christophe.Arviset at esa.int>, Pierre Le Sidaner
> <pierre.lesidaner at obspm.fr>, Mireille Louys
> <mireille.louys at unistra.fr>, Gretchen Greene <greene at stsci.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Edu] Another point we should have talked about
> Message-ID:
> <CABiOC77R-Bx=
> 3AWixJcwhZNzmkTDAO0V95-+oQUwS79mDD_SMg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear all,
> (not sure how many of you are already in the edu list. Probably someone
> will get this mail twice, apologizes for that)
>
> I committed to volute a revision of the note with a couple of figures on
> the ContentLevel usage, so we can discuss it with some numbers in mind.
> I'm ok with both the General or Educational solution. I'll prefer the
> second if VOResource will be changed.
>
> Regarding the "mirroring" part I think the idea of a versioning repository,
> once defined what to do with the different licensing, could be a good idea.
> Of course is another effort for maintenance, maybe small however.
>
> Cheers,
> Marco
>
> 2013/10/17 Markus Demleitner <msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de>
>
> > Dear EDU IG,
> >
> > this is a slight edit of a privately circulated mail that was a
> > reaction to Massimo's comments on
> >
> >
> >
> http://volute.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/projects/edu/edumatters/edumatters-fmt.html
> >
> > -- I hope Massimo's points are still clear from the quotations.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:06:08PM +0200, Massimo Ramella wrote:
> >
> > > 1) ContentLevel: seems to me that the value "General" may be quite
> > > useless. Since ContentLevel is supposed to filter resources, a value
> > [...]
> > > somewhere else. This was the comment :-) The question is: Would it
> > > be possible to have "Education" together with Research and Amateur?
> >
> > I agree that "Education" would be more fitting than "General".
> > However, having that would require a new schema, and that is, given
> > the way we've built the registry schema files, a fairly disruptive
> > change.
> >
> > Thus, it is our proposal to just *define* that "General" means
> > "suitable for Educational purposeses including schools and continuing
> > education."
> >
> > This little sleight of hand should severely reduce technological
> > problems we might get with the adoption of our recommendations.
> >
> > > 2) it seems to me that the note implies that educational resources
> > > other than data (i.e. docs,tutorials,videos....) should be those
> > > internal to VO (like the tutorials used in VO schools, for example).
> >
> > What makes you think so? I'd say text suggesting that should be
> > reformulated. It is at least my intention that people can register
> > all kinds of document-like resources useful for VO users.
> >
> > > 3) another point that is not clear to me is if we think that we
> > > should also preserve Edu resources by mirroring (or hosting) them on
> > > our VO servers. Personally, I think that we should keep these
> >
> > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "our VO servers", so I cannot
> > really comment on this. But talking about mirroring indeed raises a
> > very valid point. It would certainly be worthwhile (for the note?) to
> > have some sort of "best practices" recommendation of
> > licensing the material in a way that invites mirroring. On the other
> > hand, if we talk about mirroring, we might need to say something
> > about versioning and how people can figure out whether something they
> > find on a mirror is up to date.
> >
> > Which, come to think of it, might actually be a very valid use case
> > for the doc/edu registry extension. I'm adding it just now.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Markus
> > _______________________________________________
> > edu mailing list
> > edu at ivoa.net
> > http://www.ivoa.net/mailman/listinfo/edu
> >
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