DM Running Meeting Notes: 20251218

[CresitelloDittmar, Mark]

Notes from last week's running meeting.  This one was mostly on review of
the roadmap and setting the stage for digging in.  I expect future meetings
will be more focused on details of the roadmap objectives.

Participants:
   Mark CD, Mathieu S., Mireille L., Laurent M., Pat D., Paul H., Janet E.,
Gregory M.

ACTIONS:

   - MCD/MS: contact interest groups regarding final notes
   - MCD: follow-up with document coordinator on Spectrum model erratum
   - PD/ML: complete ObsCore-1.1 in repository.. to taggable state.
   - PH: pushing VODML-1.1 candidates for DM consensus.
   - MS: setup poll for January meeting.

Agenda:

   - TCG Meeting Recap:
   - MANGO: took a large portion of the meeting
         - Marco: What are the blocking elements here? Should be the
         highest priority now.
            - due to lack of time (personally); now has more time and has
            started reading it (EOY)
            - very big document, with lots of new content — big effort
            - possibly easier if broken into smaller models?
         - Basically falling back to the questions we keep raising..
            - is the work of the DM group in line with the expectations
            from the community (other working groups)?
            - how does each WG expect to make use of data models?
         - Feedback currently:
            - Apps, DCP, HEIG
            - DAL comments pending
         - *JE: DMs missing on 2 fronts*
            - *group not particularly impacted*
            - *does not directly affect their institution interests*
         - Spectrum Erratum - Version string consistency == PASSED!
         - need to follow-up with document coordinator to get this on the
         landing page
      - TCG Chairs should review list to identify obsolete standards for
      deprecations
         - Spectrum-2.0 is certainly a candidate
         - others?  *send recommendations to DM mail list.. create a thread*
         .
      - TCG roadmap
   - https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/2025BRoadmap
   - ObsCore Extensions
   - moving Notes forward.. what about TDIG Note (currently a WD on Git) -
      is anyone taking ownership of this?
         - *MCD/MS - ping interest groups to get ‘final’ note to bring
         forward.; identify contact for TDIG note.*
            - *ML - TDIG note is only a small number of parameters.. not a
            priority for TDIG now.. candidates for ObsCore 1.2*
               - *plan: publish as Note.. and push to ObsCore from there,
               no need for EN state.*
               - *MCD - currently a WD in the repo.. will need demoting,
               then can publish anytime.*
            - ObsCore-1.2
         - repository setup
            - *PD/ML update*
               - *3 TODO items from the conversion*
               - *ML has done the bibliography; cross referencing done*
               - *large tables (landscape) still an issue in ivoatex*
                  - *some/all of this is in appendices and non-normative..
                  do they need to stay?*
               - *general expression that the content should match that of
            the REC document, but maybe not the format, especially if
it is expected
            that the section will be removed for v1.2 *
         - fold in version 1.1 Errata
         <https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ObsCore-1_1-Errata>
         - discuss/plan migration to active updates to the model from the
         Note content
            - open issues for logistical questions and modeling
            questions/issues
            - how do we track which elements from Note have been migrated (
            and/or changed in ObsCore proper )?
            - *topic for next running meeting*
         - VO-DML
   - v1.1: I’d really like to get movement on this, have 2 questions
         - does the proposal (Git Repo) include recommended changes to
         support CAOM/ObsCore?
         - the candidates need review by DM group.. what is the path to get
         ‘concensus’ for these? *(PH lead)*
      - I'd like to explore the addition of relations to facilitate linking
      models covering equivalent concepts (levels)
         - For mango:EpochPosition this would be a 'isDenormalizedFrom"
         multiple measure model types ( Position, ProperMotion, ... ).
            - It could then use “isSameAs” relation to associate Attributes
            to the appropriate sub-attribute of the Measure objects
            - With this sort of declaration, a VO-DML validator could scan
            Mango, find the relation, follow that, and verify that the
target content
            is consistent with the details. ie: could instantiate the
target object
            from the source.
         - feedback/first impressions
            - *PH: is prehaps doable.. perhaps is a layer above vo-dml*
            - *ML: can see the similarity to the ontology work in
            semantics, but not clear how that translates to the model objects.*
            - *MCD: will try to flesh this out a bit to get a more clear
            idea of how this might work*
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