New release for Obscore 1.1

[François Bonnarel]

Dear Mark,

  As far as I understand, the question is still discussed among authors, 
despite the solution proposed on the list in June .

The issue is the following:

      What is the exact nature of the datamodel tag in the TAP reg EXT 
schema ?

      Is it a tag for a full model ? or for a "sub" model ( a package, 
serialized as a single table maybe ?)

     Let's look at the structure of the ivoid

      ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#<something>-version

     If we are refering to a full model, <something> should be null and  this will let "version" alone, the choice which Mireille did in the last version of the draft.

      If we are refering to a package or "sub data model", as we have in    "ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1" proposed by Pat, we imagine that we can have

       "ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#parts-1.1" and other things like in Pat's example.

      But this is not part of OBscore yet. maybe it will be in OBscoRE 2. Maybe it will be another model or view or package of the dataset metadata model.

       So we cannot be sure that        "ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#parts-2.0" will be valid in the future...

      In addition if we are giving ivoid for data model packages there is the tag <datamodel> apptropriate.

      This tag should be for general information on the datamodels involved in the tap service. Details will come with the tap schema which we can retrieve from the TAP service.

Cheers
François


Le 15/09/2016 23:52, Mark Taylor a écrit :
> Mireille,
>
> I'm afraid I don't understand this answer to my question, even if
> it's a call for further discussion.  Both the options a) and b)
> you mention in this response use the ObsCore 1.1 ivoid
>
>     ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1
>
> which is what I expected.  But the ivoid defined in the recent
> PR-ObsCore-v1.1-20160909 is
>
>      ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#1.1
>
> Does this correspond to another option c)?
>
> Anyway I take from this unless otherwise advised that there is
> still not agreement on this ivoid, so I won't update taplint
> until it becomes clear which it's actually going to be.
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Mireille Louys wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark, hi all,
>>
>> Thanks for the comment .
>>
>> We had a recent discussion here Strasbourg , and noticed that
>> the proposition I wrote in
>> http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/2016-September/005420.html, was actually an
>> ID for a table and not for the model itself.
>>
>> As I mentionned in the referenced mail above, a dedicated TAP service may
>> serve extra tables together with the ObsTAP ivoa.ObsCore table.
>> I feel uneasy to define the scope for an ObsTAP service and I guess we will
>> have to discuss between several options among which:
>> a- an ObsTAP service follows the TAP specification and contains at least the
>> ivoa.Obscore table and possibly more tables defined in the TAP_SCHEMA .
>> it has no version by itself , as all tables used have their own version
>> specified in their identifier.
>> in this way , ObsTAP is seen as a container with  a referenced model and
>> additionnal tables, not necessarily standardized.
>> b- an ObsTAP service contains only the ivoa.ObsCore table and its version is
>> the one of the ObsCore DM.
>>
>> I guess it is interesting to open the possibility for data providers to offer
>> ObsCore++ services , and so warrant a core level of interoperability for the
>> ObsCore metadata.
>> However the consistency between the added tables and Obscore might be "swept
>> under the carpet". ( not made explicit)
>>
>>   * in case a) the TAPregext should have at least one declaration
>>     specifying the table reference like the one proposed last june :
>>
>> /<dataModel ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore/v1.0">ObsCore-1.0</dataModel>
>> for Obscore 1.0
>> or /
>> /<dataModel
>> ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1">ObsCore-1.1</dataModel> for
>> Obscore 1.1
>> /
>>
>>   * in case b) we might have several datamodel references for the same
>>     TAP service
>>
>> for instance for version 1.1 if we want to add a Provenance table to the
>> ObsCore core table, we would have:
>> /<dataModel
>> ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1">ObsCore-1.1</dataModel>
>> and <dataModel ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/Prov#core-1.0
>> <ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1>">Prov-1.0</dataModel>
>>
>> or for a spectrum combined with annotated emission lines
>> /
>> /<dataModel
>> ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1">ObsCore-1.1</dataModel>/
>> /<dataModel ivo-id="ivo://ivoa.net/std/SSLDM#1.0
>> <ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1>">ObsCore-1.1</dataModel>/
>> Behind this I guess there is such a question :
>> At which granularity level does the interoperability take place ?
>> at the level of a model ? or at the level of a table definition ?
>>
>> Your comments welcome.
>> Cheers, Mireille.
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 12/09/2016 à 13:58, Mark Taylor a écrit :
>>> Mireille,
>>>
>>> this version PR-ObsCore-v1.1-20160909 specifies in section 5 the
>>> ObsCore 1.1 ivoid:
>>>
>>>      ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#1.1
>>>
>>> That is different from what was in the previous draft I saw
>>> (PR-ObsCore-v1.1-20160709) and what I recall being agreed in
>>> email discussions, e.g.
>>> http://mail.ivoa.net/pipermail/dm/2016-September/005420.html,
>>> which specified:
>>>
>>>      ivo://ivoa.net/std/ObsCore#core-1.1
>>>
>>> Can you confirm that the current draft is really as intended?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2016, Mireille Louys wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear DMers,
>>>>
>>>> Please find here a revised version of the Obscore 1.1 specification .
>>>> After discussion among authors about the addition of analysis results like
>>>> source lists/catalogs, and calibration levels values,
>>>> here is the proposal.
>>>> More details next week about the pros and cons.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your comments,
>>>>
>>>> Mireille Louys
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Taylor   Astronomical Programmer   Physics, Bristol University, UK
>>> m.b.taylor at bris.ac.uk  +44-117-9288776http://www.star.bris.ac.uk/~mbt/
>>
> --
> Mark Taylor   Astronomical Programmer   Physics, Bristol University, UK
> m.b.taylor at bris.ac.uk +44-117-9288776  http://www.star.bris.ac.uk/~mbt/