About Uniquely identifiable entities

[Laurent Michel]

Hi Kristin,

I had in mind a pipeline delivering one set of data product per observation. Those product sets could include intermediate files 
which are just identified  within the set they belong to. In this case Provenance would just be used to associate one product to 
one task.
Anyway, with you, once you want to expose this intermediate datasets in a DB you need to identify them.

Laurent


Le 05/12/2016 à 12:55, Kristin Riebe a écrit :
> Hi Laurent,
>
> thanks for your feedback!
>
> When talking about entities and links, I usually have a database
> implementation in mind with one table that stores all the entities, and
> for each entity there would a unique id.
> This would help me to make links to these ids, also for discovering
> provenance information starting with the final product and going
> backwards: first discovering its generating activity, then the entities
> it used etc.
> For these links it is required that the entity-ids in my entity-table
> are unique, otherwise I cannot refer to them.
>
> So I don't understand yet, how you would follow links starting from the
> final product, if you have no unique identifiers (inside your project).
> How would you link your entities?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kristin
>
>
> On 12/02/2016 05:59 PM, Laurent Michel wrote:
>> Hello
>>
>> Page 8, first bullet beneath FIG2: it is said that "provenance
>> information can only be given for uniquely identifiable entity..."
>> Thinking in term of a pipeline, I guess that this statement only
>> concerns final datasets. Intermediate datasets could unidentifiable
>> solely but just by following down links starting from the final product.
>>
>> Cheers
>> LM
>>
>>
>> Le 28/11/2016 à 14:34, Kristin Riebe a écrit :
>>> Dear Data Modelers,
>>>
>>> the working draft for the Provenance Data Model is now available at
>>> http://www.ivoa.net/documents/ProvenanceDM/
>>>
>>> We are still about to implement the model and test serialisations in our
>>> different use cases. You are very welcome to try it for your own use
>>> cases and give us some feedback!
>>>
>>> There are some remaining issues which we will discuss in our Provenance
>>> meetings; the next one is scheduled for 13th December 2016 in
>>> Strasbourg, see
>>> http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ObservationProvenanceDataModel
>>> (where you can also find upcoming events in the future and a link to the
>>> volute repository)
>>> and
>>> http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ProvDayDec2016
>>>
>>> Please put your name there if you want to participate as well!
>>>
>>> Here are some of the main discussion points which need to be addressed
>>> in the future:
>>>
>>> * Description classes
>>> - Which projects need them, which don't
>>>
>>> * "ActivityFlow"
>>> - Class for grouping activities or whole parts of a provenance graph
>>>   (of a workflow) together
>>> - When introducing this class we needed to allow multiple
>>> wasGeneratedBy-activities for one entity, though logically there should
>>> be only one "true" activity that generated an entity; but if activities
>>> can be grouped, then it must be allowed to have wasGeneratedBy-links to
>>> the activity-groups (ActivityFlow) as well
>>>
>>> * VO-DML representation
>>> - We are working on this. It seems that we have included many double
>>> compositions (at the relation-classes in between), which seem not to be
>>> allowed by VO-DML. We have to carefully check this.
>>>
>>> * Links to other data models
>>> - We have identified links with the Dataset Metadata Model, but we need
>>> to further investigate the other data models (e.g. SimDM)
>>>
>>> You are very welcome to join us and help/give advice on one or more of
>>> the points above!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Kristin Riebe, Mathieu Servillat and the Provenance Working Group
>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles

Laurent Michel
SSC XMM-Newton
Tél : +33 (0)3 68 85 24 37
Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32
Université de Strasbourg <http://www.unistra.fr>
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