<div dir="ltr">Dear Franck, Gerard, all,<div>my "current" (and past) concern was only about how the "vocabularies" page children </div><div>map to whatever internal/external page maintainers plan to use.<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">This is both to keep visible the vocabularies from the <span class="" id=":sh.1" tabindex="-1" style="">IVOA</span> web and set up proper </div><div class="gmail_extra">redirect/rewrite rules.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Not that I do care of the issues and concerns you're raising, because it means</div><div class="gmail_extra">interoperability is at stack, but I'm not the more knowledgeable person to answer</div><div class="gmail_extra">them, nor it was my goal to start that discussion.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">So, my opinion, if the questions you have arisen have an impact on the redirect rules,</div><div class="gmail_extra">then we need to solve them before we bring the thing to <span class="" id=":sh.2" tabindex="-1" style="">TCG</span>, otherwise in Victoria</div><div class="gmail_extra">we'll solve the redirect thing inside <span class="" id=":sh.3" tabindex="-1" style="">TCG</span> while the remaining issues can be solved on</div><div class="gmail_extra">the lists or in the sessions at the <span class="" id=":sh.4" tabindex="-1" style="">interop</span>.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,</div><div class="gmail_extra"> Marco</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-17 14:53 GMT+02:00 Gerard <span class="" id=":sh.5" tabindex="-1" style="">Lemson</span> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:glemson1@jhu.edu" target="_blank">glemson1@<span class="" id=":sh.6" tabindex="-1" style="">jhu</span>.<span class="" id=":sh.7" tabindex="-1" style="">edu</span></a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="m_-3490699743557183938WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cc-ing the DM group as well.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can we join the discussion on semantics and in particular the URI syntax for semantic concepts to the way vo-dml aims to use semantic vocabularies, and how they can be used in the mapping definition?
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">VO-DML slightly generalizes from the way vo-urp (as used in SimDM) used <<skosconcept>>, but it is otherwise pretty much the same.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the mapping syntax we have to acknowledge that different archives may use their own terms or codes for the various concepts and we have an OPTIONMAPPING to allow annotators to indicate the proper translation. This then needs/may need
a standardized way to identify the concept indeed.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Gerard<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-3490699743557183938__MailEndCompose"><u></u> <u></u></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>PS<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hope this mail arrives, as my previous one did not make it to the list yet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<span></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:theory-bounces@ivoa.net" target="_blank">theory-bounces@ivoa.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:theory-bounces@ivoa.net" target="_blank">theory-bounces@ivoa.<wbr>net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Franck Le Petit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 17, 2018 6:43<br>
<b>To:</b> Marco Molinaro <<a href="mailto:marco.molinaro@inaf.it" target="_blank">marco.molinaro@inaf.it</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:theory@ivoa.net" target="_blank">theory@ivoa.net</a>; IVOA semantics <<a href="mailto:semantics@ivoa.net" target="_blank">semantics@ivoa.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Call for theory talks at Victoria interop<u></u><u></u></p>
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</div><div><div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Marco,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(I answer also on the Semantics mailing list)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Last week, I answered to an email by Mireille concerning the Theory vocabularies.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Theory SKOS vocabularies can be exported as .RDF files. So, it is possible to put them on the IVOA vocabulary webpage you sent us:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VocabularyTestPage" target="_blank">http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/<wbr>bin/view/IVOA/<wbr>VocabularyTestPage</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nevertheless, we will also need the present dedicated website (<a href="http://votheory.obspm.fr" target="_blank">http://votheory.obspm.fr</a> - excepted we would like to change its URL to make disappear the
<a href="http://obspm.fr" target="_blank">obspm.fr</a> and replace it with something as “ivoa something”) since, to fully take benefit of SKOS format, we need an application above the files to search/browse in the concept list and use the relationships between concepts. This
point can wait. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Apart this point, our main concern is to get a decision concerning the syntax of URIs for concepts.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(see the discussion initiated by Nicolas Moreau on the 30th May 2017 on the Semantics mailing list). <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I note that on the VocabularyTestPage, UCDs are presented in SKOS format. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, I have a few questions since the problem we try to solve since one year, for the Theory vocabularies and concepts, is related. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>1 - Namespace, dates & revisions</b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">A concept in the SKOS UCD list seems to be only the UCD without any namespace:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Example of concept: phys.temperature.electron<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(taken from: <a href="http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html" target="_blank">http://ivoa.net/rdf/<wbr>Vocabularies/vocabularies-<wbr>20091007/UCD/UCD.html</a>)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand, vocabularies seem to be published with a date and a revision. For example:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://ivoa.net/vocabularies/ucd/ucdv1.33/ucd-1.33-20180224.rdf" target="_blank">ivoa.net/vocabularies/ucd/<wbr>ucdv1.33/ucd-1.33-20180224.rdf</a></span></em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"><wbr> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">or </span> <a href="http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD/UCD.html" target="_blank">http://ivoa.net/rdf/<wbr>Vocabularies/vocabularies-<wbr>20091007/UCD/UCD.html</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">In a VO-Table in which columns are tagged with UCDs (ex: phys.temperature.electron), how do you provide the namespace that indicates to a system from which vocabulary
(with revision and date) the UCD come from ? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">Said otherwise, what is the rule to build </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">the URI of a concept ? I mean
the part before the # in:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"><a href="http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-20091007/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron" target="_blank">http://ivoa.net/rdf/<wbr>Vocabularies/vocabularies-<wbr>20091007/UCD#Phys.temperature.<wbr>electron</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white">2 - Interoperability</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">How do you ensure the interoperability between services ? <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I mean how does a system can know that:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"><a href="http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2009/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron" target="_blank">http://ivoa.net/rdf/<wbr>Vocabularies/vocabularies-<b>2009</b><wbr>/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">is the same physical quantity than<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;background:white"><a href="http://ivoa.net/rdf/Vocabularies/vocabularies-2012/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron" target="_blank">http://ivoa.net/rdf/<wbr>Vocabularies/vocabularies-<b>2012</b><wbr>/UCD#Phys.temperature.electron</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Franck<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 17 avr. 2018 à 08:27, Marco Molinaro <<a href="mailto:marco.molinaro@inaf.it" target="_blank">marco.molinaro@inaf.it</a>> a écrit :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Hervé, Carlos, all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">unfortunately there was no TCG face-to-face in Santiago, so the vocabulary topic was stuck.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I make myself a reminder and ask Mireille, so to have this discussed in the TCG in Victoria.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mireille has prepared already material to start the discussion from, see<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://wiki/" target="_blank">http://wiki</a>.<a href="http://ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VocabularyTestPage" target="_blank">ivoa.net/twiki/<wbr>bin/view/IVOA/<wbr>VocabularyTestPage</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope this helps.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Marco<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">PS - personal opinion: it would be nice to hear your theory ideas regardless the solution to this issue.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2018-04-16 12:04 GMT+02:00 Hervé Wozniak <<a href="mailto:herve.wozniak@umontpellier.fr" target="_blank">herve.wozniak@umontpellier.fr</a><wbr>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Carlos,<br>
<br>
one current task for theory is to provide a clear place for its vocabulary. This is mandatory to be able to provide a revision for SimDM, to which I have committed myself.<br>
<br>
After a long discussion on theory and semantics, launched by Marco on May 19th 2017 and suspended after Franck's mail on Oct 9th, it has been suggested (by Marco and Mireille I guess) to move the discussion at TCG level in Santiago. Indeed, any solution mixes
formal (IVOA consistence) and technical (subdomain redirection) aspects. I wasn't in Santiago, so I don't know what the decisions are.<br>
<br>
However, without any progress on this issue, it is impossible to move to a revision, even cosmetic, of SimDM.<br>
<br>
So my participation in the Victoria meeting depends on our capacity to conclude.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Hervé<br>
<br>
PS: do I summarise properly the discussions in writing that 'IVOA' has to decided between:<br>
<br>
http://(www).<a href="http://ivoa.net/vocabularies/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName" target="_blank">ivoa.net/<wbr>vocabularies/theory/<wbr>vocabulary#ConceptName</a><br>
or<br>
<a href="http://purl.ivoa.net/theory/vocabulary#ConceptName" target="_blank">http://purl.ivoa.net/theory/<wbr>vocabulary#ConceptName</a><br>
<br>
provided that any solution allows for redirection towards an external server for curation (e.g.
<a href="http://purl.obspm.fr/vocab" target="_blank">purl.obspm.fr/vocab</a>)<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Le 09/04/2018 à 19:43, Carlos Rodrigo a écrit :<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear interop and, in particular, theory people<br>
<br>
This is a call for contributions for the Theory session in the next IVOA Interop meeting in Victoria.<br>
<br>
If you are going to Victoria this may and you are interested in presenting of introducing any<br>
discussion related to theoretical data in the VO context, please, just send me your proposal.<br>
<br>
Of course, topics related to SimDAL, SimDM, SimDAL implementation note, semantics in the theoretical<br>
context, etc are welcome. But any new topic that you want to talk about is welcome too.<br>
<br>
See you soon<br>
<br>
Carlos Rodrigo<br>
<a href="mailto:crb@cab.inta-csic.es" target="_blank">crb@cab.inta-csic.es</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
Herve WOZNIAK<br>
Astronome<br>
<br>
Directeur-adjoint<br>
LUPM<br>
UMR5299 Université de Montpellier - CNRS<br>
Place Eugène Bataillon - CC 72<br>
F-34095 Montpellier Cédex 05<br>
<br>
Tel/Phone : +33 4 6714 3902 Fax : +33 4 6714 4190<br>
<br>
skype : herve.wozniak<br>
<a href="http://herve.wozniak.fr/" target="_blank">http://herve.wozniak.fr/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>