Vocabulary terms in MANGO

[Laurent Michel]

Markus,

Le 08/11/2024 à 13:20, Markus Demleitner via semantics a écrit :
> Dear Laurent,
> 
> On Thu, Nov 07, 2024 at 06:21:26PM +0100, Laurent Michel via semantics wrote:
>>> On 6 Nov 2024, at 15:00, Markus Demleitner via semantics <semantics at ivoa.net> wrote:
>>> That would be a vocabulary of its own, right?  In this particular
>>> case, it would be great if the descriptions (or something else)
>>> discussed your concepts' relationships to what EPN-TAP has in its
>>> description of the processing_level column (EPN-TAP2, CODMAC, PSA,
>>> PDS3, PDF4, and Obscore levels).
>>
>> I’m not expert in vocabularies, but I guess that such a calibration
>> vocabulary could include specific branches per domain (ObsCore,
>> EPN-TAP…) and setup cross links between them.
> 
> Well, this would make sense if the *other* schemes were organised as
> RDF resources.  You could then declare "their" concepts to be exactly
> (or roughly) the same as yours machine-readably.  But since there are
> few machines that *want* to read this kind of information, I think
> there is little need to put work into doing this.

OK

> 
> What I was thinking of was more: Make sure that we *could* write such
> a mapping, i.e., that, to the extent possible, your concepts somehow
> align with the other concepts.  Ideally, the descriptions would then
> say something like "in PDS: 2 or 3".
> 
>> Let’s start with the three vocabularies I need for MANGO:
>> - calibration levels
>> - photometry measurements
>> - sky region
> 
> For photometry measurements, let's make sure that whatever we do is
> useful for PhotDM, too -- can we find a volunteer for that?

My need is simple, it can be summarized like this:

     - brighness (Magnitude, flux, count-rate)*
     - color(mag ratio, hardness ratio)

I don't think this concerns directly PhotDM which models the photometric calibration.

> 
> Sky regions would be types of sky regions, i.e., MOC vs. STC-S vs.
> DALI shape?  Are you 100% sure that shouldn't be handled via DALI
> types and xtypes on the values?  I know you've always tried to be
> independent of VOTable in your DM efforts, but I'd really like to
> avoid inventing schemes competing with DALI, and I'd much rather
> teach xtypes and VOTable types to whatever other format you might
> want to annotate than to invent a DALI alternative to denote geometry
> types.

I totally agree with you.
Xtypes provide some words that must be reused in MANGO.
The problem is to find a convenient way to connect both worlds.
Xtype definitions are sparse in the VO documentation and there is no hierarchy ordering them:
     -  "xtype=hms" is at the same level as "xtype=moc"

The connection with MANGO could be done just through the attribute definition:
     - the value of this attribute must match one of (A,B,C) which are Xtype allowed values as defined in XYZ

Or dare I suggest another option which is to put Xtype values in a specific vocabulary (xtype.rdf)?


> 
> Calibration levels sounds the (technically) simplest of these
> domains.  I'd suggest we should use that as pilot.

Let's start with this

Laurent
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>              Markus
> 

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Laurent Michel
SSC XMM-Newton
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Université de Strasbourg <http://www.unistra.fr>
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