VEP-project <--- Re: [[VEP-005]<-- ...

[François Bonnarel]

Hi all

I come back to this "counterpart" proposal for DataLink semantics vocabulary

A few remarks before modifying/completing the VEP-project

1 ) I got the comment by Markus that the numbering should be given with 
some caution

2 ) other comments about the rationale and lack of example/

3 ) as for the example I had some private discussions wuith Carlos from 
SVO. they have a large number of various conesearch services with 
DataLink like that.

Carlos allowed me to use these. Currently what they have in semantics 
FIELD is "auxiliary" which I think is the wrong term. Typically this 
would be a perfect use case for "counterpart"

4 ) Other terms have been proposed for this kind of use-cases. I add 
these alternates terms in the discussion section

Cheers

François

Vocabulary:http://ivoa.net/rdf/datalink/core
Author: François Bonnarel
Date: 2020_05-22
Supercedes: VEP-001

New Term: counterpart
Action: Addition
Label: counterpart dataproduct
Description: Data products  that are related to #this for various 
interpretation purposes.
Used-in:
      various SVO ConeSearch services (Cortesy Carlos Rodrigo / SVO )

       CATlib spectral library 
(http://svo2.cab.inta-csic.es/vocats/v2/catlib/)

      ----> Datalink example : 
http://svo2.cab.inta-csic.es/vocats/v2/catlib/dl.php?ID=BD-+01+2582

       MILES spectral library ( 
http://svo2.cab.inta-csic.es/vocats/v3/miles/ )

        ---> DataLink example 
(http://svo2.cab.inta-csic.es/vocats/v3/miles/dl.php?ID=HD102634)

      Could be used by VizieR for their "associated data"

Rationale:
     Astronomers often want to associate #this (astronomical objects, 
sources or datasets ) with dataproducts of other provenance (but sharing 
some common features with  them). The purpose maybe for comparison, 
cross-corelation, multi-band interpration, follow-up of changes, 
checking simulations results versus observations.
     Examples of that are measurements in another band, images, cubes, 
spectra, timeseries of a source, same dataproduct type and location in 
physical space  but at another time, etc ....

Discussion:

      The use case there is different from the one considered in 
VEP-003/VEP-004 (#sibling , #co-derived, #co-generated) because there is 
no common provenance or progenitor between both sides of the link.

       The original proposed term was #associated-data borrowed to 
VizieR (VEP-001). This one was considered too vague.

      Other proposed terms :

  * #isObservationOf, #contains, #followup, #cross-associated, #see-also ,

       None of these have been retained : too vague, or too specific to 
some more restricted use cases

  * #compared-to : this one  is currently a private communication.


Le 06/05/2020 à 14:42, François Bonnarel a écrit :
> Hi Mireille, Markus, all
>
> Le 28/04/2020 à 19:02, Mireille LOUYS a écrit :
>> Sounds ok to me.
>>>
>>> Now, vocabularies 2 currently says on VEP review:
>>>
>>>    During the process, all parts of the VEP may be changed except the
>>>    term(s) proposed.
>>>
>>> and I still think that's largely a good idea.
>>>
>>> Hence, before I retract VEP-003 and replace it with an essentially
>>> identical VEP-004 with co-generated: Would anyone here object to that
>>> or strongly prefer #sibling?
>>
>> I agree with "co-generated". The meaning is close to "sibling" ,
>>
>> has less connotation towards graphs' theory and may be understandable 
>> for a larger audience.
> :-)
>>
>>>> p
>>>>
>>>>       I propose something like "#other" or "#alternate" ( the 
>>>> latter was
>>>> already proposed by Markus ..... in 2015 !!! semantics session during
>>>> interop In Sydney)
>>> #alternate was really intended when #this has multiple
>>> representations (classic example: a spectrum that you get as
>>> FITS-array, FITS-table, SDM VOTable, or CSV).  I still think this is
>>> a good idea because we ought to make it a SHOULD that there's just
>>> one #this per ID.  But that's for another VEP.
>>
>> I agree. I understand this term means "same content in a different 
>> representation" while we need a term to mention
>>
>> we link to another dataset interesting to hela /enrich the 
>> interpretation of the data stored in #this.
>>
>> "related_data", "other", "see-also" seem too vague for this , but I 
>> cannot make up a better term .:-(
>>
>>
>>
> I was still looking for a word which says it is
>
>       1 ) not metadata, but data, not calibration data, not auxiliary 
> (but main information)  not documentation, and not a service
>
>       2 ) is associated to the #this thing but is neither derived, 
> nore progenitor , nore co-generated.
>
>             We have plenty of use cases like that in VizieR, for XMM, 
> probably for ESO if I remember well an older request from Alberto 
> Micol. And this also can be valid for "TimeSeries" outside the Gaia 
> use case well represented by co-generated (see VEP-004)
>
>       Eventually I found the "counterpart" term.
>
>      Online Oxford dictionary definition reads "A person or thing 
> holding a position or performing a function that corresponds to that 
> of another person or thing in another place"
>
>      Sounds good to me. Is more general than "contains" (corresponds 
> to the source #this but in the "image" world") "followup" (corresponds 
> to  #this but in the future) and "cross-associated," 
> "cross-correlated" ...  but is still covering these terms as an head 
> term if desired.
>
>      I think with "progenitor", "derived", "co-generated" and 
> "counterpart" we cover a wide field of relationships between #this and 
> a linked dataproduct.
>
>      As you know from the DataLink discussion the actual 
> dataproduct_type will be given in the mime-type parameter of the 
> "content-type" field of Datalink response
>
>    So This is the VEP-005
>
> Vocabulary:http://ivoa.net/rdf/datalink/core
> Author: François Bonnarel
> Date: 2020_05-06
> Supercedes: VEP-001
>
> New Term: counterpart
> Action: Addition
> Label: counterpart dataproduct
> Description: Data products holding a position that corresponds to 
> #this in another data space.
> Used-in:
>      VizieR or ESO example to be worked on
>
> Rationale:
>     Astronomers often want to associate to astronomical objects, 
> sources or datasets dataproducts of other provenance but sharing some 
> common features with those.
>
>     examples of that are measurements in another band, images, cubes, 
> spectra, timeseries of a source, same dataproduct type and location in 
> physical space  but at another time, etc ....
>
>
> Cheers
>
> François
>
>
>
>
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