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Thanks for all the responses. It sounds like we just need to write this down, perhaps somewhere on the Registry wiki? </div>
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<div>- - - - </div>
<div>Dr. Tess Jaffe (she/her)</div>
<div>NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, USA</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> registry <registry-bounces@ivoa.net> on behalf of Christophe Arviset <Christophe.Arviset@esa.int><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> registry@ivoa.net <registry@ivoa.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Sara Nieto <sara.nieto@ext.esa.int>; Philip Matsson <philip@winterway.eu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] [BULK] RE: [Ops] non-responsive services in the Registry</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="">Dear all</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style=""> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="">Indeed, at the Euro-VO Registry, we’ve recently applied the same rules as Pierre and in all cases, we did not have to go up to point 4 (ask IVOA Exec for final decision), as earlier steps and through step 3 (ask national
representative at the IVOA Exec to take decision) was enough to have the confirmation.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">-- </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Thanks in advance</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">Christophe</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> registry <registry-bounces@ivoa.net>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pierre Le Sidaner<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 11, 2023 12:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> registry@ivoa.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ops] non-responsive services in the Registry</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 10/07/2023 09:38, Markus Demleitner wrote:</p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>Hi Tess,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Thanks for tackling this.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>On Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 01:18:46PM +0000, Jaffe, Tess (GSFC-6601) wrote:</pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre>So I'm looking for information about how to remove services from</pre>
<pre>the registry that are not responding and whose responsible contacts</pre>
<pre>aren't either. Renaud pointed me at a mention on the Ops page</pre>
<pre>(<a href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IvoaOps#Procedure%20for%20Removing%20Non-Respo" originalsrc="https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IvoaOps#Procedure%20for%20Removing%20Non-Respo" shash="Q5R1k0CpjyYoSAemxIeA1bD9jHB85QDz4Bmdgt4l36QxAUOLd+ebDukluP40t6g2NmBu8VGAZSEIJHzaFa5vwTApNyMMnIw9yEoaXLSa/mmHUDya15tOcF6vrHY8YorpKd+qRpIo988qhj3N36bkX7x9/mhgDIYgHj7AH5xqa7k=">https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/IvoaOps#Procedure%20for%20Removing%20Non-Respo</a>)</pre>
<pre>which refers to "A revised procedure was adoped by the IVOA in</pre>
<pre>October 2016." But we don't find it. Anybody know where I can</pre>
<pre>hear about what other registries are doing and what we should do?</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Well... this, I seem to remember, refers to item 7 in these Exec</pre>
<pre>minutes:</pre>
<pre><a href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IvoaRepMin/ivoa-fm66-20161020.pdf" originalsrc="https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IvoaRepMin/ivoa-fm66-20161020.pdf" shash="MW6tnQ6oX2tCWQkB0gEVrWjaPmTDp0oO2TxwJ4n6WfssGD8H93iQU3vF1GWEvAidal8q4SlQUIi1MrmRq+3w2yxSsa9Yf2XAVf7gQwMbWC49V1kfxdpwhGXbGL5AtAdvZIkM2xdxUKmU7JZ17q/P6rbGDg6/Z3O6/nh2tMSmw4Y="><https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IvoaRepMin/ivoa-fm66-20161020.pdf></a>.</pre>
<pre>I think Pierre had a nicely worked-out paper back then that I may</pre>
<pre>even be able to dig out if necessary. Pierre, if you have it at</pre>
<pre>hand, can you perhaps put it on the twiki in some suitable position?</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>But then in practice here's what I've been doing when I encounter</pre>
<pre>dead services by chance, typically because dead services have bad</pre>
<pre>resource records, too:</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>(1) use the contact address to ask the service's operators</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>(2) if they are unresponsive, try the originating publishing</pre>
<pre>registry's operators</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>(2a) if they are responsive, work with them to either get the service</pre>
<pre>fixed or have it removed from their publishing registries</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>(2b) if they are unresponsive, see whether any living services are</pre>
<pre>published through that registry (in case *it* is still alive). If</pre>
<pre>that is the case (never has been), improvise. Otherwise, ask the</pre>
<pre>Exec to tell the RofR to remove the dead publishing registry.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Perhaps that's something we should note down on the Twiki, perhaps on</pre>
<pre>a page linked to by Ops and Registry?</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> -- Markus</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">I will talk about experience in removing ghost service from the registry, our (group of cleaners) where having a step that are more empirical</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">1) As Markus said, first try to contact the owner of the service, in those case usually nobody answer, because we had already did that many time.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">2) try to see in the same institute if you know somebody close to ...<br>
Sometime it worked, mean we have an answer like "it's dead you can remove it"</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10.0pt">In that case you go with this answer to the owner of the registry where the service is registered and ask to make it in status='inactive'</span></p>
<p>3) still no answer, try to find (usually on exec) the national representative in iVOA</p>
<p>sometime it solve the problem, because he know who is now in charge of the service and it can allow to change the resource content or pass it to inactive</p>
<p>4) nothing work, ask exec to take a decision on the status of the resource to remove it from registry</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I hope it helped</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Pierre </p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>-------------------------------------------------------------------------</pre>
<pre> Pierre Le Sidaner </pre>
<pre> Observatoire de Paris - PSL</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Directeur de la Direction Informatique de l'Observatoire</pre>
<pre>Directeur technique de Paris Astronomical Data Centre</pre>
<pre>tel : 01 40 51 20 82</pre>
<pre>77 Av Denfert Rochereau 75014 Paris</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:pierre.lesidaner@observatoiredeparis.psl.eu">mailto:pierre.lesidaner@observatoiredeparis.psl.eu</a></pre>
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