<html><body><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Hi Markus,</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>Some initial thoughts / questions on the document. Pages refer to the PDF document you linked.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><strong>[1] </strong></div><div>I noticed that the <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">VOResource</span> example given in pg. 7 (in the PDF file) is in fact XSD-invalid (this also applies to the previous version of the document). I attach the original version and the modified one (that's XSD valid). You may <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">diff</span> them to see the differences. (the date problem is related to the PDF generation which introduces an em-dash where the original *.tex file only has a hyphen, but the other issues are real).</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><strong>[2]</strong> pg 8: mangled line numbers on items 3 and 7</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><strong>[3]</strong> pg.8: I am not sure it is appropriate to offer "SQL databases" as an example of non-XML aware software. E.g., PostgreSQL is fully XML and in fact XSD-schema and namespace-aware and can resolve prefixes just fine at least as far back as 9.2. "older SQL databases" might be best. Also, in the same paragraph, and in order to clarify, I would enhance:</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>"will use these prefixes rather than the full namespace URIs"</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>to:</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>"might be unable to properly de-reference / resolve the namespace prefixes to their namespace URIs. In XML prefixes are not significant; instead, it is only the namespace URI that matters (and not the prefix one binds it to). However, to accommodate such legacy software, certain IVOA recommendations (e.g. RegTAP) require that specific well-known prefixes be bound to well-known IVOA namespace URIs. This allows older / simpler software to just use the prefixes as an 100% reliable alias for the namespace (as opposed to just an arbitrary key that one has to cross-reference to yield the ultimate, normative namespace URI)."</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>... but on second thought I am not sure whether the above clarifies or just belabors the point.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><strong>[4]</strong> pg. 9 "a small schema that defines a global element <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">ri:Resource</span> of default type <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">vr:Resource</span>". I am not sure "default type" exists as a concept in XML/XSD. I would change that to "base type".</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><strong>[5]</strong> you note in connection to the schema changes that:</div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"> "I've taken care that VOResource 1.0 documents don't become invalid.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"> Paul's new schema versioning scheme also helps."</span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;">I am bit confused by this statement. Are you saying:</span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><em>[5.a]</em> any IVOA resource that's valid against the VOResource 1.0 XSD schema should also be valid against the 1.1 XSD schema </span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;">... or ...</span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><em>[5.b]</em> validators should check the resource version attribute (Pauls' new schema versioning schema?) and pickup the right XSD schema to validate it against</span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" data-mce-style="color: #000000; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: #ffffff;">?</span></div><div><br></div><div><strong>[6]</strong> I note that a number of type definitions (e.g. <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">vr:Type</span>, <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">vr:ContentLevel</span>) are now removed and are tracked by non-XSD controlled vocabularies. I am not sure how that's supposed to work with XSD validators in the Java ecosystem. E.g. when the <span style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: 'courier new', courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;">vr:Type</span> was defined in the XSD schema, validation was handled automatically, I am not sure if this is possible now. Also, in the same connection, some of the links provided are not working (e.g. <a href="http://www.ivoa.net/rdf/voresource/content_level." data-mce-href="http://www.ivoa.net/rdf/voresource/content_level.">http://www.ivoa.net/rdf/voresource/content_level.</a>)</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div>Cheers,<br></div><div>Menelaus.</div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><br data-mce-bogus="1"></div><div><br></div><hr id="zwchr" data-marker="__DIVIDER__"><div data-marker="__HEADERS__"><b>From: </b>"Markus Demleitner" <msdemlei@ari.uni-heidelberg.de><br><b>To: </b>registry@ivoa.net<br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, April 26, 2016 3:10:14 PM<br><b>Subject: </b>VOResource 1.1 internal Working Draft<br></div><div><br></div><div data-marker="__QUOTED_TEXT__">Dear Colleagues,<br><br>First a word from our sponsors:<br><br> ==========================================<br> Time is running out for Cape Town.<br> If you have anything Registry-related<br> to report (and this includes wishlists)<br> please act *now* and tell <br> msdemlei@ari.uni-heidelberg.de<br><br> Thank You.<br> ==========================================<br><br>Then, I've prepared an internal working draft for VOResource 1.1,<br>available from volute (trunk/projects/registry/VOResource) and in<br>formatted form from <br><br>http://docs.g-vo.org/VOResource.pdf<br><br>I had expected this to be a short, little thing, but the list of<br>changes has become fairly long, so in preparations for (hopefully<br>lively) discussions in Cape Town, I offer a short Q&A here.<br><br><br>Why?<br>====<br><br>Main reason: VOResource should be able to communicate DOIs (and<br>ORCIDs); also, since it's hard enough to make people provide good<br>metadata in one scheme (let alone two) VOResource should be as<br>aligned as possible (retaining backward compatibility) with<br>DataCite's core metadata scheme.<br><br>Secondary reason: There have been a few baked-in vocabularies (for<br>dates, relationship types, content levels, content types). I'd<br>rather manage these vocabularies independently of the standard, more<br>like SAMP mtypes or perhaps datalink prodcut types.<br><br><br>What?<br>=====<br><br>I've taken care that VOResource 1.0 documents don't become invalid.<br>Paul's new schema versioning scheme also helps. There's one really<br>new element: altIdentifier, currently possible in Resource and<br>Creator (where it could take DOIs/bibcodes or ORCIDs, respectively).<br><br>The second big change is conceptual: Whereas VOResource 1.0 claims<br>it's just a serialisation of Resource Metadata, we adopt DataCite<br>core as a second "upstream".<br><br>A bit more minor is removing the spin towards having interfaces with<br>several different versions within one capability; in VO practice,<br>versioning has moved to standardIDs, as has service discovery (which<br>was still envisioned to use capability/xs:type then years ago).<br><br>Here are other changes from the changelog:<br><br>* Adding a version attribute to vr:Resource for compliance with XML<br>Schema Versioning Policies<br><br>* The vocabulary of date/@role is now managed as a separate<br>resource; DataCite terms have been added to it, and the old 1.0 terms<br>deprecated.<br><br>* The vocabulary of relationshipType is now managed as a separate<br>resource; some DataCite terms have been added to it.<br><br>* Service/rights now is free text rather than the tree-term<br>enumeration. In addition, it now has a rightsURI attribute,<br>DataCite-style.<br><br>* content/type is now xs:token rather than a special restriction.<br>The vocabulary is now managed as an external resource.<br>Consequently, the vr:Type type vanishes from the XSD.<br><br>* content/level is now xs:token rather than a special restriction.<br>The vocabulary is now managed as an external resource.<br>Consequently, the vr:ContentLevel type vanishes from the XSD.<br><br>* Now discouraging fixing standardID in VOResource extensions.<br>Also, removed indication that capability/@xsi:type should be used for<br>service discovery.<br><br>* Now allowing a Z timezone marker in UTCTimestamp, indeed<br>discouraging non-timezone use. This is in line with OAI-PMH use.<br>Therefore, while technically changing the schema such that legacy<br>clients might be confused, we do not expect incompatibilites.<br><br>* resource/description and capability/description are now xs:string<br>to enable simple plain text markup.<br><br>* Consequently, removing 1.0 default on interface/@version.<br><br>* Added advice about the use of creator.name<br><br>* Removed SOAP/WSDL example and a bit of the accompanying language.<br><br>* Section 3 needed some refactoring since the schema documentation<br>is now generated from the schema document. To accomodate this, some<br>text manually embedded within the schema documentation had to be moved<br>out of the generated material or removed.<br><br>* While we still reference RM, it is now no longer informally<br>authoritative for VOResource (we'd have to change RM before we change<br>VOResource otherwise)<br><br>* References to the RM terms in the metadata definition dropped<br>(could add support in ivoates/schemadoc if we want them back).<br><br>* Strongly advising the use of the vr: prefix, removing some<br>duplicated advice regarding prefixes<br><br>* Removed example for deriving a SIA capability (this is now<br>in the document repository)<br><br>Most of these changes correspond to individual commits. See<br><br>svn log http://volute.g-vo.org/svn/trunk/projects/registry/VOResource<br><br>if you want to dig in or check the actual textual changes.<br><br><br>And that's it?<br>==============<br><br>Unfortunately, no. There's still some topics that I think we need to<br>work out (assuming the proposed changes find acceptance).<br><br>Here is a list of topics I'd like to discuss:<br><br>* Relax IdentifierURI? There's a todonote in the text discussing<br>what I think we should do.<br><br>* Unify party-like entities (creator, contributor, publisher, contact)<br>to a single type?<br><br>* Do we want DaCiMeta contributorType? This would require defining a<br>new type for contributor so we can have an @type (or @role)<br>attribute.<br><br>* What about securityMethod? Do we now have a better idea how this<br>might become useful? Grid?<br><br>* Language: Should VOResource say content must be in English? Or is<br>that something Registry Interfaces should say ("if you want your<br>stuff to be in the VO Registry...")? Or do we keep ignoring the<br>issue?<br><br>* Use URLs instead of terms from hardwired RDF vocabularies throughout?<br><br>* What procedure do we adopt for vocabulary changes?<br><br>* Should more things have altIdentifiers?<br><br>* Recommendations on what to do with "should be drawn from the IAU<br>Thesaurus"?<br><br>* Should we define a naming convention as to US/British spelling<br>(there's "Organisation", but my impression is that most tech names in<br>the VO are US spelling)?<br><br>* What about disallowing multiple accessURLs right now? Last time I<br>checked, no actual Registry record used that, so technically we'd not<br>even be invalidating anything existing with that schema change.<br><br>* Have some way to mark up mirror/main site in interface so people<br>can manage mirrors in the VO Registry?<br><br><br>What next?<br>==========<br><br>Given this long list, I'm thinking of devoting an entire Registry<br>session to the VOResource makeover (of course, if people hand in lots<br>of additional requests for time in the Registry sessions, that's not<br>going to work out, but right now it seems perfectly feasible).<br><br>It would be great if as many people as possible could come there with<br>opinions and ideas. If there was something you always wanted in<br>VOResource, this is your chance.<br><br>Remember: The next change to VOResource might be another then years<br>away.<br><br>After Cape Town, I'd like to quickly make this an actual Working<br>Draft. It'd be great if the really big issues could be out of the<br>way by then, and perhaps we can have RFC before Trieste, so we could<br>already discuss RFC results there.<br><br><br>You're serious?<br>===============<br><br>Well, yes. I feel a bit bad that these lists have become so long,<br>but then VOResource was, in its core, devised about 10 years ago.<br>Much in the VO and beyond has changed, and I have to say Kudos to Ray<br>and company that all that I think really needs attention is this<br>list of relatively minor points.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br> Markus<br></div></div><PRE>This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.
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