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Thanks for these responses, that's exactly what I needed to know. I just didn't think a tar file was a particularly popular option in the IVOA, but it should be straightforward for us. But aurent's spec makes sense to me, and we already have tools that tar
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(I'm not on the semantics list, just the HEIG, and already overloaded.) </div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="divRplyFwdMsg" style="color: inherit;"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> heig <heig-bounces@ivoa.net> on behalf of Laurent Michel via heig <heig@ivoa.net><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 5, 2025 12:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> heig@ivoa.net <heig@ivoa.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Heig] [EXTERNAL] [BULK] Re: vocabulary update: proposal for dataproduct_type update for high energy data : event-list definition and event-bundle</span>
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<div style="font-size: 11pt;">CAUTION: This email originated from outside of NASA. Please take care when clicking links or opening attachments. Use the "Report Message" button to report suspicious messages to the NASA SOC.<br>
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Hello,<br>
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<br>
Le 05/05/2025 à 08:56, Markus Demleitner via semantics a écrit :<br>
> Hi Tess,<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2025 at 01:48:29PM +0000, Jaffe, Tess (GSFC-6601) via semantics wrote:<br>
>> Possibly dumb question:<br>
><br>
> Not at all; you're touching a topic that has been discussed quite a<br>
> few times now without a satisfying result yet: What does it mean if<br>
> there are multiple items with the same semantics in Datalink? Is it<br>
> "all of them together give the thing" or is it "they are<br>
> alternatives"? Or yet something else?<br>
><br>
> Previous rounds suggested that the interpretation will probably<br>
> depend on the concept, but the details turned out to be fairly messy.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> If an ObsCore table lists an event-bundle as a separate row with<br>
>> its own product_type, and the access_url follows best practice<br>
>> specifying a datalink that will return the bundle, what should the<br>
>> DataLink result include as #this? We are actively putting this<br>
>> together now at HEASARC. If the product type is simply a spectrum,<br>
><br>
> That's excellent news!<br>
><br>
>> our datalink result has the spectrum file as #this and the response<br>
>> matrices, background, etc. as related products in the same result<br>
>> table. If the product itself is a bundle, what is the #this? Do<br>
>> we have to provide a tarball or something? Or are there multiple<br>
>> #this with different dataproduct_subtypes? The latter doesn't<br>
>> sound right to me.<br>
><br>
> Given my preamble, I'd avoid multi-#this. The ideal solution would<br>
> IMHO be a standard archive if the HEIG can commit to such a thing.<br>
> Failing that, I think a tar archive of the individual components<br>
> would be the second best thing. CADC does something like this,<br>
> although the other way round: They're handing out everything tarred<br>
> together as a #package. Offering the components individually,<br>
> possibly as #progenitor-s, would help cases when people really only<br>
> want to fetch a single part.<br>
<br>
I agree that having multiple #this is confusing (which one is the good one.??).<br>
In my understanding #this must match the product_type as in the Obscore record.<br>
<br>
If a spectrum bundle is exposed in a separate row, we should have something like this:<br>
<br>
Obscore row:<br>
-----------<br>
- product_type=spectrum-bundle (tbd)<br>
- access_format=application/x-votable+xml;content=datalink<br>
<br>
Datalink response:<br>
-----------------<br>
- link #1<br>
- semantics=#this<br>
- content_qualifier=spectrum-bundle (TBD)<br>
- content_type=application/tar+gzip<br>
- description="spectrum file + preview + ARF + RMF + Background spectrum"<br>
<br>
<br>
If the spectrum is exposed in a separate row:<br>
<br>
Obscore row:<br>
-----------<br>
- product_type=spectrum<br>
- access_format=application/x-votable+xml;content=datalink<br>
<br>
Datalink response:<br>
-----------------<br>
- link #1<br>
- semantics=#this<br>
- content_qualifier=spectrum<br>
- content_type=application/fits<br>
- description="spectrum file"<br>
- link #2<br>
- semantics=#package<br>
- content_qualifier=spectrum-bundle (TBD)<br>
- content_type=application/tar+gzip<br>
- description="spectrum file + preview + ARF + RMF + Background spectrum"<br>
<br>
I do not believe we are able to design a standard HEIG archive because this too much mission/tool specific.<br>
Do we really needs the archive content to be machine readable?<br>
Anyway, individual files can be exposed with an adapted semantics.<br>
<br>
Laurent<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> But at least for a prototype (and, if that works fine, perhaps also<br>
> as a long-term practice), I think nobody would be terribly confused<br>
> if #this were just the time series or spectrum, in particular if a<br>
> content-qualifier would let machines figure out what it is they'll<br>
> get.<br>
><br>
> I'm not too happy with #progenitor for the individual components,<br>
> though. Perhaps datalink/core should have a concept #component with<br>
> the definition "for datasets where #this is composed of multiple<br>
> individual artefacts, #component rows offer access to individual<br>
> artefacts. Use local-semantics to consistently mark up the roles of<br>
> the components." or so.<br>
><br>
> In the end, I think we need to see what will help clients consuming<br>
> this. Do we have software that we could use to try that out? What<br>
> do people use to work this #event-bundle-s?<br>
><br>
> -- Markus<br>
><br>
<br>
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