<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    Hi Kelle, Mark,<br>
    Hi Igor, <br>
    Hi DMers ,<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    In the revision of Obscore 1.1 , I did provide a mapping for ObsCore
    attributes to FITS keywords for the Binospec project . <br>
    That was a request from Igor Chilingarian to map the data produced
    to ObsCore seemlessly. <br>
    <br>
    I don't know today what has been used in the archive , but Igor may
    help to correct and give feedback.<br>
    <br>
    Here attached is the first mapping table proposed . <br>
    The Time extension for ObsCore is not covered yet  in this table.<br>
    <br>
    Eager to help for this , <br>
    Best regards , Mireille<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 13/06/2024 à 21:17,
      CresitelloDittmar, Mark via dm a écrit :<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH4enyNndeftZPPgr4oS506WRt2_c70HPwP-gQx0f-psMuA=cg@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Sweet!</div>
        <div>I do think that would be very handy for providers just now
          defining their products.</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">The Notes are pretty open contributions..
          <div>The first step would be to create a repository for it
            at: <a href="https://github.com/ivoa" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa</a></div>
          <div>If you go there, you'd see the HEIG Note repo as a
            good/recent addition example.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>I would be able to create the repo, but don't have the
            time (at least not today) to put together the document
            framework.</div>
          <div>Mark</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at
            3:00 PM Kelle Cruz <<a href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">I would be happy with an IVOA Note for FITS
              serializations!  
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>And yes, it could also list multiple keywords that
                are in use for various concepts.  And this oldie but
                goodie list of Commonly Used FITS keywords can also
                serve as inspiration. I note that this document also
                includes a reference to which institution initially
                adopted it/defined it.
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>How does one go about writing an IVOA Note? As you
                  can tell, I'm eager to contribute.</div>
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>Kelle </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at
                2:47 PM CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a
                  href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="ltr">Kelle,
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>For quick reference, this PDF came from: <a
href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM</a></div>
                  <div>That's along the lines of what I meant.. </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Optimally, I think this is best provided as an
                    IVOA Note for FITS serializations (rather than
                    within an ObsCore level standard), that could
                    somehow consolidate the model concepts which
                    are repeated in some of these early models, and
                    suggest a FITS name for it.   If done well, it would
                    track down and integrate existing dictionaries like
                    the MAST one you point to in the Issue (<a
href="https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata"
                      target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata</a>).</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Mark</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024
                    at 2:22 PM Kelle Cruz <<a
                      href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                    <div dir="ltr">I also found this PDF which is SUPER
                      USEFUL!  It seems to be part of the idle ImageDM
                      project. Is there any reason not to use this table
                      as a guide?
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>btw, I'm updating the table in the issue as I
                        figure things out:<br>
                        <a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Thanks,</div>
                        <div>Kelle</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13,
                        2024 at 12:41 PM Kelle Cruz <<a
                          href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                        <div dir="auto">What if instead of saying
                          “standard” keywords, we call them “suggested“
                          and make the table an appendix?  That way,
                          we’re not saying people need to “recast” their
                          FITS files, but we are providing useful
                          information for folks generating new data
                          products?<br clear="all">
                          <br>
                          There’s a real opportunity here to make it
                          easier for the “common” astronomer to
                          implement and adopt VO-type concepts and
                          methods which improve data accessibility and
                          reusability. Providing FITS keyword
                          suggestions is immediately useful to lots of
                          folks and would be seen as a positive benefit
                          of the VO.<br>
                          <br clear="all">
                          <div>
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">kelle
                              (via iOS)</div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
                              Jun 13, 2024 at 12:24 PM
                              CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a
                                href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu"
                                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
                              wrote:<br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">Kelle,
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Regarding the issue you posted on
                                    the ObsCoreTimeExtension repo.</div>
                                  <div>   <a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>I thought you might hit this
                                    problem since you're looking for
                                    standard FITS keywords for your
                                    lightcurves.</div>
                                  <div>The ObsCore standard (and
                                    extensions) are targeted toward Data
                                    Discovery threads, which pass the
                                    information around in VOTables
                                    annotated with UTypes.</div>
                                  <div>As such, that probably isn't a
                                    good place to put corresponding FITS
                                    keywords.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>There are very few models
                                    targeting Data Products, and even
                                    there, I think only Spectrum
                                    includes FITS serialization specs. 
                                    In general, the data models should
                                    be independent of serialization
                                    standards, and that is the direction
                                    we have been moving towards in the
                                    newer, vo-dml compliant models.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>It sounds like what you are
                                    looking for is a mapping from the
                                    ObsCore (and extension) UTypes to a
                                    VO recommended FITS keyword.. which
                                    I don't believe exists other than
                                    what is defined in Spectrum.  Or
                                    perhaps preferably a FITS
                                    serialization standard which maps
                                    model concepts to FITS key/column
                                    specs... which certainly doesn't
                                    exist in the VO.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>I think the idea has been:</div>
                                  <div>  * Everybody uses different FITS
                                    keywords to serialize their data</div>
                                  <div>  * We need to standardize
                                    something for Data Discovery that
                                    doesn't force everyone to recast
                                    their FITS files</div>
                                  <div>  * So we'll communicate in
                                    VOTable and tag the concepts with
                                    UTypes</div>
                                  <div>      + data providers can then
                                    map their individual keywords to the
                                    ObsCore standard UTypes.</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>I'm afraid this isn't a very
                                    encouraging email.. I'm not sure
                                    what to recommend for you.</div>
                                  <div>Anyone.. Please correct me if
                                    I've missed a resource that would be
                                    helpful here.</div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">
                                <div dir="ltr">
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>Mark</div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">
                                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
                                    Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 8:28 AM Kelle
                                    Cruz via dm <<a
                                      href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a>>
                                    wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="auto">This document has
                                      what I’m looking for!  Thanks
                                      everyone. </div>
                                    <div dir="auto"><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto">
                                      <div><a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf</a></div>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div dir="auto">kelle
                                      (via iOS)<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                    </div>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                                        <div dir="ltr"
                                          class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun
                                          12, 2024 at 3:59 AM BONNAREL
                                          FRANCOIS <<a
href="mailto:francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr" target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr</a>>
                                          wrote:<br>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Ada and I wrote in parallel,
                                          but we are pointing to the
                                          same IVOA note !<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Best regards<br>
                                          <br>
                                          François<br>
                                          <br>
                                          Le 12/06/2024 à 09:57, NEBOT
                                          GOMEZ-MORAN Ada (OBS) via dm a
                                          écrit :<br>
                                          > Hi Kelle,<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > we wrote this note some
                                          time ago:<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > <a
href="https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf"
                                            rel="noreferrer"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf</a><br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > but it didn’t get much
                                          attention so I haven’t made
                                          any effort on making
                                          improvements / changes to it
                                          for some time.<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > Let me know if this goes
                                          in the lines of your needs!<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > Cheers,<br>
                                          > Ada<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > ----- Mail d’origine
                                          -----<br>
                                          > De: Kelle Cruz via dm
                                          <<a
                                            href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a>><br>
                                          > À: <a
                                            href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net"
                                            target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a><br>
                                          > Envoyé: Tue, 11 Jun 2024
                                          22:34:39 +0200 (CEST)<br>
                                          > Objet: Lightcurve
                                          datamodel?<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > Hi folks,<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > I'm working on wrangling
                                          some lightcurves into a
                                          "standard" format. is<br>
                                          > there a good reference
                                          document for a lightcurve
                                          datamodel? At this point,<br>
                                          > I'm mostly just
                                          interested in header keywords.<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > Thanks,<br>
                                          > Kelle<br>
                                          ><br>
                                          > --<br>
                                          > Kelle Cruz, PhD (she/her,
                                          they/them)<br>
                                          > Assoc. Professor, Physics
                                          and Astronomy, Hunter College<br>
                                          > CEO, ScienceBetter
                                          Consulting, LLC<br>
                                          > CFO, Startorialist, Inc.
                                          <<a
href="http://shop.startorialist.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://shop.startorialist.com</a>><br>
                                          > Editor-in-Chief,
                                          AstroBetter Blog and Wiki <<a
href="http://astrobetter.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://astrobetter.com</a>><br>
                                          > Research Associate,
                                          American Museum of Natural
                                          History<br>
                                          > Visiting Scholar,
                                          Flatiron Institute<br>
                                          ><br>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
--
Mireille Louys,  MCF (Associate Professor)  
Centre de données CDS          Images, Laboratoire ICube &
Observatoire de Strasbourg      Telecom Physique Strasbourg
11 rue de l'Université         300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
F- 67000-STRASBOURG             F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34</pre>
  </body>
</html>