<div dir="ltr">Thanks Mireille,<div> This is not included in the ObsCore1.1 standard.. right? Does it exist anywhere official/semi-official that we can reference?</div><div><br></div><div>Also.. I wanted to pass along a ping I got from Tess Jaffe on the subject..</div><div>Basically a reminder that the OGIP FITS standards cover these sorts of data (including light curves) and should be folded into any IVOA Note suggesting FITS serializations of such products.</div><div> * <a href="https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/ofwg_recomm.html">https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/ofwg_recomm.html</a><br></div> * <a href="https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/docs/rates/ogip_93_003/ogip_93_003.html">https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/docs/rates/ogip_93_003/ogip_93_003.html</a><div><br></div><div>Mark</div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at 10:53 AM Mireille LOUYS via dm <<a href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank">dm@ivoa.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Kelle, Mark,<br>
Hi Igor, <br>
Hi DMers ,<br>
<br>
<br>
In the revision of Obscore 1.1 , I did provide a mapping for ObsCore
attributes to FITS keywords for the Binospec project . <br>
That was a request from Igor Chilingarian to map the data produced
to ObsCore seemlessly. <br>
<br>
I don't know today what has been used in the archive , but Igor may
help to correct and give feedback.<br>
<br>
Here attached is the first mapping table proposed . <br>
The Time extension for ObsCore is not covered yet in this table.<br>
<br>
Eager to help for this , <br>
Best regards , Mireille<br>
<br>
<div>Le 13/06/2024 à 21:17,
CresitelloDittmar, Mark via dm a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Sweet!</div>
<div>I do think that would be very handy for providers just now
defining their products.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The Notes are pretty open contributions..
<div>The first step would be to create a repository for it
at: <a href="https://github.com/ivoa" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa</a></div>
<div>If you go there, you'd see the HEIG Note repo as a
good/recent addition example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would be able to create the repo, but don't have the
time (at least not today) to put together the document
framework.</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at
3:00 PM Kelle Cruz <<a href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com" target="_blank">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I would be happy with an IVOA Note for FITS
serializations!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And yes, it could also list multiple keywords that
are in use for various concepts. And this oldie but
goodie list of Commonly Used FITS keywords can also
serve as inspiration. I note that this document also
includes a reference to which institution initially
adopted it/defined it.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How does one go about writing an IVOA Note? As you
can tell, I'm eager to contribute.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kelle </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at
2:47 PM CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Kelle,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For quick reference, this PDF came from: <a href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM" target="_blank">https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM</a></div>
<div>That's along the lines of what I meant.. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Optimally, I think this is best provided as an
IVOA Note for FITS serializations (rather than
within an ObsCore level standard), that could
somehow consolidate the model concepts which
are repeated in some of these early models, and
suggest a FITS name for it. If done well, it would
track down and integrate existing dictionaries like
the MAST one you point to in the Issue (<a href="https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata" target="_blank">https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata</a>).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024
at 2:22 PM Kelle Cruz <<a href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com" target="_blank">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I also found this PDF which is SUPER
USEFUL! It seems to be part of the idle ImageDM
project. Is there any reason not to use this table
as a guide?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>btw, I'm updating the table in the issue as I
figure things out:<br>
<a href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Kelle</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13,
2024 at 12:41 PM Kelle Cruz <<a href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com" target="_blank">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">What if instead of saying
“standard” keywords, we call them “suggested“
and make the table an appendix? That way,
we’re not saying people need to “recast” their
FITS files, but we are providing useful
information for folks generating new data
products?<br clear="all">
<br>
There’s a real opportunity here to make it
easier for the “common” astronomer to
implement and adopt VO-type concepts and
methods which improve data accessibility and
reusability. Providing FITS keyword
suggestions is immediately useful to lots of
folks and would be seen as a positive benefit
of the VO.<br>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">kelle
(via iOS)</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
Jun 13, 2024 at 12:24 PM
CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Kelle,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the issue you posted on
the ObsCoreTimeExtension repo.</div>
<div> <a href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought you might hit this
problem since you're looking for
standard FITS keywords for your
lightcurves.</div>
<div>The ObsCore standard (and
extensions) are targeted toward Data
Discovery threads, which pass the
information around in VOTables
annotated with UTypes.</div>
<div>As such, that probably isn't a
good place to put corresponding FITS
keywords.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are very few models
targeting Data Products, and even
there, I think only Spectrum
includes FITS serialization specs.
In general, the data models should
be independent of serialization
standards, and that is the direction
we have been moving towards in the
newer, vo-dml compliant models.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It sounds like what you are
looking for is a mapping from the
ObsCore (and extension) UTypes to a
VO recommended FITS keyword.. which
I don't believe exists other than
what is defined in Spectrum. Or
perhaps preferably a FITS
serialization standard which maps
model concepts to FITS key/column
specs... which certainly doesn't
exist in the VO.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think the idea has been:</div>
<div> * Everybody uses different FITS
keywords to serialize their data</div>
<div> * We need to standardize
something for Data Discovery that
doesn't force everyone to recast
their FITS files</div>
<div> * So we'll communicate in
VOTable and tag the concepts with
UTypes</div>
<div> + data providers can then
map their individual keywords to the
ObsCore standard UTypes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm afraid this isn't a very
encouraging email.. I'm not sure
what to recommend for you.</div>
<div>Anyone.. Please correct me if
I've missed a resource that would be
helpful here.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at 8:28 AM Kelle
Cruz via dm <<a href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank">dm@ivoa.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">This document has
what I’m looking for! Thanks
everyone. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div><a href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">kelle
(via iOS)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun
12, 2024 at 3:59 AM BONNAREL
FRANCOIS <<a href="mailto:francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr" target="_blank">francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
Ada and I wrote in parallel,
but we are pointing to the
same IVOA note !<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
François<br>
<br>
Le 12/06/2024 à 09:57, NEBOT
GOMEZ-MORAN Ada (OBS) via dm a
écrit :<br>
> Hi Kelle,<br>
><br>
> we wrote this note some
time ago:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> but it didn’t get much
attention so I haven’t made
any effort on making
improvements / changes to it
for some time.<br>
><br>
> Let me know if this goes
in the lines of your needs!<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Ada<br>
><br>
> ----- Mail d’origine
-----<br>
> De: Kelle Cruz via dm
<<a href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank">dm@ivoa.net</a>><br>
> À: <a href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank">dm@ivoa.net</a><br>
> Envoyé: Tue, 11 Jun 2024
22:34:39 +0200 (CEST)<br>
> Objet: Lightcurve
datamodel?<br>
><br>
> Hi folks,<br>
><br>
> I'm working on wrangling
some lightcurves into a
"standard" format. is<br>
> there a good reference
document for a lightcurve
datamodel? At this point,<br>
> I'm mostly just
interested in header keywords.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Kelle<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Kelle Cruz, PhD (she/her,
they/them)<br>
> Assoc. Professor, Physics
and Astronomy, Hunter College<br>
> CEO, ScienceBetter
Consulting, LLC<br>
> CFO, Startorialist, Inc.
<<a href="http://shop.startorialist.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://shop.startorialist.com</a>><br>
> Editor-in-Chief,
AstroBetter Blog and Wiki <<a href="http://astrobetter.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://astrobetter.com</a>><br>
> Research Associate,
American Museum of Natural
History<br>
> Visiting Scholar,
Flatiron Institute<br>
><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
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<br>
<pre cols="72">--
--
Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)
Centre de données CDS Images, Laboratoire ICube &
Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg
11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34</pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div>