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Hi Mark , <br>
Yes it was a work in progress at the time of Obscore1.1 publishing
and has not been finalized as a note . <br>
Implementation feedback is needed.<br>
<br>
The point is that we have focused much of our VO efforts in building
metadata for VOTable format and less on the crosswalk tasks<br>
between various FITS metadata encoding and TAP. <br>
<br>
Thanks, Mireille<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 14/06/2024 à 18:16,
CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH4enyNPD36TCGC_i7dZ5AvwYycgK0zLxwxNs0B8x0Hf1daVag@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">Thanks Mireille,
<div> This is not included in the ObsCore1.1 standard..
right? Does it exist anywhere official/semi-official that we
can reference?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also.. I wanted to pass along a ping I got from Tess Jaffe
on the subject..</div>
<div>Basically a reminder that the OGIP FITS standards cover
these sorts of data (including light curves) and should be
folded into any IVOA Note suggesting FITS serializations of
such products.</div>
<div> * <a
href="https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/ofwg_recomm.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/ofwg_recomm.html</a><br>
</div>
* <a
href="https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/docs/rates/ogip_93_003/ogip_93_003.html"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/heasarc/ofwg/docs/rates/ogip_93_003/ogip_93_003.html</a>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jun 14, 2024 at
10:53 AM Mireille LOUYS via dm <<a
href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Hi Kelle, Mark,<br>
Hi Igor, <br>
Hi DMers ,<br>
<br>
<br>
In the revision of Obscore 1.1 , I did provide a mapping for
ObsCore attributes to FITS keywords for the Binospec project
. <br>
That was a request from Igor Chilingarian to map the data
produced to ObsCore seemlessly. <br>
<br>
I don't know today what has been used in the archive , but
Igor may help to correct and give feedback.<br>
<br>
Here attached is the first mapping table proposed . <br>
The Time extension for ObsCore is not covered yet in this
table.<br>
<br>
Eager to help for this , <br>
Best regards , Mireille<br>
<br>
<div>Le 13/06/2024 à 21:17, CresitelloDittmar, Mark via dm a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Sweet!</div>
<div>I do think that would be very handy for providers
just now defining their products.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">The Notes are pretty open contributions..
<div>The first step would be to create a repository
for it at: <a href="https://github.com/ivoa"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa</a></div>
<div>If you go there, you'd see the HEIG Note repo as
a good/recent addition example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would be able to create the repo, but don't
have the time (at least not today) to put together
the document framework.</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13, 2024
at 3:00 PM Kelle Cruz <<a
href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I would be happy with an IVOA Note
for FITS serializations!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And yes, it could also list multiple keywords
that are in use for various concepts. And this
oldie but goodie list of Commonly Used FITS
keywords can also serve as inspiration. I note
that this document also includes a reference to
which institution initially adopted it/defined
it.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>How does one go about writing an IVOA Note?
As you can tell, I'm eager to contribute.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kelle </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 13,
2024 at 2:47 PM CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a
href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Kelle,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For quick reference, this PDF came from:
<a
href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ImageDM</a></div>
<div>That's along the lines of what I meant.. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Optimally, I think this is best provided
as an IVOA Note for FITS serializations
(rather than within an ObsCore level
standard), that could somehow consolidate
the model concepts which are repeated in
some of these early models, and suggest a
FITS name for it. If done well, it would
track down and integrate existing
dictionaries like the MAST one you point to
in the Issue (<a
href="https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://outerspace.stsci.edu/display/MASTDOCS/Light-curve+Metadata</a>).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun
13, 2024 at 2:22 PM Kelle Cruz <<a
href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I also found this PDF which
is SUPER USEFUL! It seems to be part of
the idle ImageDM project. Is there any
reason not to use this table as a guide?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>btw, I'm updating the table in the
issue as I figure things out:<br>
<a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Kelle</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu,
Jun 13, 2024 at 12:41 PM Kelle Cruz <<a
href="mailto:kellecruz@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">kellecruz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">What if instead of
saying “standard” keywords, we call
them “suggested“ and make the table an
appendix? That way, we’re not saying
people need to “recast” their FITS
files, but we are providing useful
information for folks generating new
data products?<br clear="all">
<br>
There’s a real opportunity here to
make it easier for the “common”
astronomer to implement and adopt
VO-type concepts and methods which
improve data accessibility and
reusability. Providing FITS keyword
suggestions is immediately useful to
lots of folks and would be seen as a
positive benefit of the VO.<br>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_signature">kelle (via
iOS)</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 12:24 PM
CresitelloDittmar, Mark <<a
href="mailto:mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">mdittmar@cfa.harvard.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Kelle,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding the issue you
posted on the
ObsCoreTimeExtension repo.</div>
<div> <a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/issues/8</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought you might hit
this problem since you're
looking for standard FITS
keywords for your
lightcurves.</div>
<div>The ObsCore standard (and
extensions) are targeted
toward Data Discovery
threads, which pass the
information around in
VOTables annotated with
UTypes.</div>
<div>As such, that probably
isn't a good place to put
corresponding FITS keywords.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are very few models
targeting Data Products, and
even there, I think only
Spectrum includes FITS
serialization specs. In
general, the data models
should be independent of
serialization standards, and
that is the direction we
have been moving towards in
the newer, vo-dml compliant
models.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It sounds like what you
are looking for is a mapping
from the ObsCore (and
extension) UTypes to a VO
recommended FITS keyword..
which I don't believe exists
other than what is defined
in Spectrum. Or perhaps
preferably a FITS
serialization standard which
maps model concepts to FITS
key/column specs... which
certainly doesn't exist in
the VO.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think the idea has
been:</div>
<div> * Everybody uses
different FITS keywords to
serialize their data</div>
<div> * We need to
standardize something for
Data Discovery that doesn't
force everyone to recast
their FITS files</div>
<div> * So we'll communicate
in VOTable and tag the
concepts with UTypes</div>
<div> + data providers
can then map their
individual keywords to the
ObsCore standard UTypes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm afraid this isn't a
very encouraging email.. I'm
not sure what to recommend
for you.</div>
<div>Anyone.. Please correct
me if I've missed a resource
that would be helpful here.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed,
Jun 12, 2024 at 8:28 AM
Kelle Cruz via dm <<a
href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">This
document has what I’m
looking for! Thanks
everyone. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div><a
href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObscoreTimeExtension/blob/master/ObscoreTimeExtension.pdf</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">kelle (via
iOS)<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On
Wed, Jun 12, 2024 at
3:59 AM BONNAREL
FRANCOIS <<a
href="mailto:francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
Ada and I wrote in
parallel, but we are
pointing to the same
IVOA note !<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
François<br>
<br>
Le 12/06/2024 à 09:57,
NEBOT GOMEZ-MORAN Ada
(OBS) via dm a écrit :<br>
> Hi Kelle,<br>
><br>
> we wrote this
note some time ago:<br>
><br>
> <a
href="https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.ivoa.net/documents/Notes/LightCurveTimeSeries/20231122/TimeSeries.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> but it didn’t get
much attention so I
haven’t made any
effort on making
improvements / changes
to it for some time.<br>
><br>
> Let me know if
this goes in the lines
of your needs!<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Ada<br>
><br>
> ----- Mail
d’origine -----<br>
> De: Kelle Cruz
via dm <<a
href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a>><br>
> À: <a
href="mailto:dm@ivoa.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">dm@ivoa.net</a><br>
> Envoyé: Tue, 11
Jun 2024 22:34:39
+0200 (CEST)<br>
> Objet: Lightcurve
datamodel?<br>
><br>
> Hi folks,<br>
><br>
> I'm working on
wrangling some
lightcurves into a
"standard" format. is<br>
> there a good
reference document for
a lightcurve
datamodel? At this
point,<br>
> I'm mostly just
interested in header
keywords.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
> Kelle<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Kelle Cruz, PhD
(she/her, they/them)<br>
> Assoc. Professor,
Physics and Astronomy,
Hunter College<br>
> CEO,
ScienceBetter
Consulting, LLC<br>
> CFO,
Startorialist, Inc.
<<a
href="http://shop.startorialist.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://shop.startorialist.com</a>><br>
> Editor-in-Chief,
AstroBetter Blog and
Wiki <<a
href="http://astrobetter.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://astrobetter.com</a>><br>
> Research
Associate, American
Museum of Natural
History<br>
> Visiting Scholar,
Flatiron Institute<br>
><br>
</blockquote>
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<br>
<pre cols="72">--
--
Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)
Centre de données CDS Images, Laboratoire ICube &
Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg
11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--
Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)
Centre de données CDS Images, Laboratoire ICube &
Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg
11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34</pre>
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