<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Alberto, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your points are fair enough, and use cases should be the starting point. I think that the document should state clearly the use cases this extension tries to solve and how. At the moment it refers to another VO document ("Radio interferometry data in the VO”), which makes the reading a bit more tedious. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I suggest the authors of the document summarise those use cases upfront and add a section on how those uses cases get answered by the proposed parameters of such a secondary table that would accompany Obscore. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Ada</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div>Ada Nebot</div><div>-- </div><div>Astronome Adjointe</div><div>CDS, Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg (ObAS)</div><div>UMR 7550 Université de Strasbourg</div><div>11 Rue de l’Université, F-67000 Strasbourg</div><div>+33 (0) 3 68 85 24 40</div>
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 29 Aug 2023, at 15:46, alberto micol <<a href="mailto:amicol.ivoa@googlemail.com" class="">amicol.ivoa@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear All,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sorry, I hope I sound more propositive than patronising… I really believe in what I’m going to say...</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When we prepared ObsCore 1.0, we were driven by a consolidated and approved list of scientific use cases (*). Those use cases were provided in form of ADQL-like queries that astronomers wanted to perform to find data useful to their scientific projects. Those queries are reported in the ObsCore standard (Appendix A: Use Cases in detail).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Such list of use cases helped us a lot in cutting short discussions that otherwise would have been much longer and tiring, and likely ineffective.</div><div class="">Of the many parameters useful to describe any given dataset, we were forced by the collected list of use cases/database queries, to restrict ourselves to the juice of things. So to say, ObsCore is only the orange juice, it is not the orange, nor the oranges. </div><div class="">The list of queries not only provided the list of most important parameters needed, but also made clear how those parameters were going to be used, hence implicitly providing their definition.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I cannot express strong enough how fundamental it was to have those use cases at hand. </div><div class="">In my opinion, to be faithful to the original and commended ObsCore’s approach, I think that any extension to ObsCore </div><div class="">shall provide, first of all, a list of use cases, expressed as ADQL-like queries, for the specific type of data at hand, and not yet supported by ObsCore.</div><div class="">(Some such use cases could even be found within the mentioned Appendix, as we could not accomodate in v1.0 all received use cases).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">While reading the twiki discussion page and after having had a look at the current WD for the extension to radio data, I failed to find any reference to the queries such ObsCore extension should permit. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is it too late to ask, probably the Standing Committee for Science Priorities, such list of queries? </div><div class=""><div class="">(Of course, unless such list already exists, and I have miserably failed to find it, in which case please accept my apologies)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">I believe that by looking at the new use cases, and comparing them with the existing ones, we can come up with a powerful and versatile standard.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Without new use cases, I really do not know how the questions posed in the discussion page could effectively be answered, as I do not understand what is really important, which parameters are going to be used the most by the community, which ones instead are only covering niche cases, etc. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The ObsCore motto was: “good enough”, as opposed to “describing all possible scenarios”, I will not forget that lesson, which I hope is also passed along to the new generation of VO developers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My two cents,</div><div class="">Alberto</div><div class="">(*) The use cases were collected by the Use Case Group of astronomers, appointed by the IVOA Take-Up Committee (predecessor of the current Standing Committee on Science Priorities), and led by David Schade, whose role did not stop there as he then organised and attended all the following ObsCore Tiger Team meetings, motivating us all, until publication of ObsCore v1.0, back in 2011. [Reference: <a href="https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/IvoaExecMeetingFM34/IVOATake-UpRept0909.doc" class="">Report of IVOA Take-Up Committee</a>, IVOA Interop, Strasbourg May 2009]</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 26 Jul 2023, at 15:39, BONNAREL FRANCOIS <<a href="mailto:francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr" class="">francois.bonnarel@astro.unistra.fr</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="">Dear all,<br class=""><br class=""> We plan to have a joint on line meeting in one month in order to solve most of the remaining issues for the ObsCore extension for radio data specification<br class=""><br class=""> A poll to choose date and time below. Everybody in these lists is welcomed but must of all the specification authors.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://evento.renater.fr/survey/radio-ig-dm-wg-running-meeting-l6i1fdo0" class="">https://evento.renater.fr/survey/radio-ig-dm-wg-running-meeting-l6i1fdo0</a><br class=""><br class=""> I remind you the links for the specification WD : https://ivoa.net/documents/ObsCoreExtensionForRadioData/20230512/index.html<br class=""><br class="">the discussion page on the ivoa twiki : https://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/ObsCoreExtensionForRadioData<br class=""><br class="">or the github project : https://github.com/ivoa-std/ObsCoreExtensionForRadioData<br class=""><br class="">Cheers<br class=""><br class="">François Bonnarel (RIG Chair) with<br class=""><br class="">Mark Cresitello Dittmar (DMWG Chair)<br class=""><br class="">Mark Kettenis (RIG vice-chair)<br class=""><br class="">Mathieu Servillat (DMWG vice-chair)<br class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>