<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">Dear DM and TCG,</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class="">There are 3 WGs telling us that, MIVOT is not ready get in REC. The main concern seems to be related to the reference implementations.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class="">I won’t summarise here the discussion but it has to noted that this standard has specificities that lead to many misunderstanding:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class="">- The purpose of MIVOT is to define a syntax making a bridge between models and data, nothing more,</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class=""> nothing less</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class="">- This is a necessary step toward a valuable model handling.</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class="">- MIVOT is a difficult challenge because we do not know a-priori what the structure of the models to be mapped are and the data either.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; min-height: 15px;" class=""> From that perpective MIVOT is closer to a language than to an XML schema which is rather new in the VO context.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class="">- There is no semantic in MIVOT. MIVOT never tell you what the radial velocity for the dataset is. </span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;" class=""> It will just tell the client that this column can be interpreted as this leaf of that model (which is supposed to exist).</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><span class="">This is a new episode in the DM WG life which is</span> a long eggs-and-chickens story:<ul class=""><li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">The IVOA ask us to provide recommended models</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span> but to make REC models, we have to demonstrate that actual data can be mapped on them. </li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span> For this we need an annotation syntax which requires first REC models.</li></ul><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">Breaking that loop is a permanent challenge for the WG.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">The strategy we proposed to achieved this was the following:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">1- Get the REC for ongoing models (MCT/PhotDM) [done]</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">2- Propose an annotation (MIVOT) syntax allowing to map data on those models [done]</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">3- Validate this syntax against the above models even if the added-value is low [here we are]</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">4- Propose more complex models (MANGO, Cube) that bring real added value </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""> to the data and that can help to solve real science use cases.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">5- Validate them with MIVOT</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">This approach has been presented several times at the Interop, and as a (leaving soon) chair I'm still endorsing it at 100%.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">Now we are in between 2 and 3 and some people (semantic) require 4 to be complete before validating 3.</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">This is a step back to chicken/egg loop, but never give up: I’m still hoping the we can find a solution:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">We have 2 options:</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">1- Merging standards 2 and 4 in one RFC process: honestly, I propose this for the record because I would like to keep </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""> a chance to see the end of story before to get retired (4 years).</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">2- Finalising 3 but with the assumption that 4 is OK. In other words working with model drafts (MANGO and/or Cube).</div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">My proposal to move on is the following:</div>
<ul class="">
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>Asking the TCG which option should be taken</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>If this is 1), I let my successor handle this</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>If this is 2) I propose to</li>
<ul class="">
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>obtain a clear acceptance that the high level models being worked on are drafts</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>Improve the validator as requested by MD</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>Provide an had-hoc 6 params (ala Gaia) implementation (as requested by MD)</li>
<li style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class=""><span style="font-stretch: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal;" class=""></span>Conclude the MIVOT REC on the bases of all models (REC or draft)</li></ul></ul><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">While waiting for an official TCG notification, we’ll to stop working on this standard (matter of time saving). </div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue"; min-height: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";" class="">LM writing with both chair and editor hat.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div>—</div><div>Translate with https: //<a href="http://www.deepl.com/translator" class="">www.deepl.com/translator</a></div><div class="">-- <br class="">jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles/Berlin<br class=""><br class="">Laurent Michel<br class="">SSC XMM-Newton<br class="">Tél : +33 (0)3 68 85 24 37<br class="">Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32<br class="">Université de Strasbourg <<a href="http://www.unistra.fr" class="">http://www.unistra.fr</a>><br class="">Observatoire Astronomique<br class="">11 Rue de l'Université<br class="">F - 67200 Strasbourg</div></div></div>
</div>
<br class=""></body></html>