<html><body>Just to comment that it also depends on the definition of these upper/lower limits<BR>
<BR>
The UCDs proposed are in line with an Upper detection limit, Lower detection limit at instrument level but, at least in high-energy, the Upper Limit is usually the minimum number of counts from a source necessary for a detection (or in flux space) so the Upper Limit would be more related to the instr.sensitivity;phot.flux.<BR>
<BR>
So, are we talking about the upper/lower limits of the instrument or the source? Both are related but the interpretation is different<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Jesús Salgado <BR>
SKA Regional Centre Architect<BR>
<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a><BR>
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Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 28/07/2022, 09:51, "Salgado, Jesus" <jesus.salgado@skao.int> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Dear all,<BR>
<BR>
I fully agree that Upper/Lower Limits are not errors so, I think, it should not be treated as such from the ontology point of view.<BR>
I think we could use both ideas and separate the concepts of Upper and Lower Limits.<BR>
<BR>
For me, intuitively:<BR>
Upper Limit is -> instr.saturation;phot.flux<BR>
Lower Limit is -> instr.sensitivity;phot.flux<BR>
<BR>
(just removing the stat qualifiers)<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Jesús Salgado <BR>
SKA Regional Centre Architect<BR>
<a href="mailto:jesus.salgado@skao.int">jesus.salgado@skao.int</a><BR>
<a href="http://www.skao.int" target="_blank">www.skao.int</a> <<a href="https://www.skao.int/" target="_blank">https://www.skao.int/</a>><BR>
SKA Observatory<BR>
Jodrell Bank, Lower Withington,<BR>
Macclesfield, SK11 9FT, UK<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 28/07/2022, 07:41, "dm on behalf of Laurent Michel" <dm-bounces@ivoa.net on behalf of laurent.michel@astro.unistra.fr> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Hello<BR>
<BR>
AS questioned by Mark Upper/Lower limits are not Error terms. There are detection thresholds.<BR>
<BR>
UpperLimit: If it was a source here it would have a flux below the upper limit<BR>
- instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.max ??<BR>
<BR>
Lower limit: If it was a source here it would have a flux above the lower limit<BR>
- instr.sensitivity;phot.flux;stat.min ??<BR>
<BR>
Laurent<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Le 27/07/2022 à 17:10, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :<BR>
> Thanks Mireille,<BR>
> <BR>
> These are very similar to the current placeholders ( which mimic the StatErrorLow|High element ucds )<BR>
> The main question I have about this was/is:<BR>
> o is LowerLimit/UpperLimit conceptually considered an Error term?<BR>
> If not, then perhaps the detection limit options are more appropriate.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mark<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 11:40 AM Mireille LOUYS <mireille.louys@unistra.fr <mailto:mireille.louys@unistra.fr>> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear dmers,<BR>
> <BR>
> just on the UCD assignation , I have another suggestion for /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit /<BR>
> which also validates in the UCD builder tool (http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd<BR>
> <<a href="http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd" target="_blank">http://cdsweb.u-strasbg.fr/UCD/cgi-bin/descr2ucd</a>> ) and contains the flux information:<BR>
> stat.error;phot.flux;stat.min<BR>
> <BR>
> /Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit/ whould also have this UCD<BR>
> stat.error;phot.flux;stat.max<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks , Mireille,<BR>
> for the UCD maintenance committee.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Le 21/07/2022 à 20:22, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :<BR>
>> Hi,<BR>
>><BR>
>> Follow-up on the UCD topic. I've started a new Issue in the repository<BR>
>> <<a href="https://github.com/ivoa-std/SpectrumDM/issues/5" target="_blank">https://github.com/ivoa-std/SpectrumDM/issues/5</a>> for this, so it can be worked outside of the structural model changes.<BR>
>> The primary objective is to select the proper terms for the new elements.. I'm not sure if we need to go outside this list<BR>
>> for that, but I'm hoping Vandana and Petr can get some review on this and provide feedback.<BR>
>><BR>
>> The following shows the UCDs put into this PR, and the suggested values per the UCD Builder utility.<BR>
>><BR>
>> * Data.SpectralAxis.order => "instr.order"<BR>
>> * Data.SpectralAxis.relorder => "instr.order"<BR>
>> o UCD builder suggests: "stat.variance;instr.order" for both, though "instr.order" can stand on its own.<BR>
>> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.LowerLimit => "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.min" (Same as StatErrorLow)<BR>
>> o UCD builder suggests:<BR>
>> + "statistical lower limit" -> "stat.value;stat.min"<BR>
>> + "detection lower limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.min"<BR>
>> * Data.FluxAxis.Accuracy.UpperLimit => "stat.error.phot.flux.density;em.*;stat.max" (Same as StatErrorHigh)<BR>
>> o UCD builder suggests:<BR>
>> + "statistical upper limit" -> "stat.value;stat.max"<BR>
>> + "detection upper limit" -> "instr.saturation;stat.max"<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> Mark<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> --<BR>
> Mireille Louys, MCF (Associate Professor)<BR>
> Centre de données CDS IPSEO, Images, Laboratoire Icube<BR>
> Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg<BR>
> 11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413<BR>
> F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex<BR>
> Tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
English version: https: //www.deepl.com/translator<BR>
-- <BR>
jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles/Berlin<BR>
<BR>
Laurent Michel<BR>
SSC XMM-Newton<BR>
Tél : +33 (0)3 68 85 24 37<BR>
Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32<BR>
Université de Strasbourg <<a href="http://www.unistra.fr" target="_blank">http://www.unistra.fr</a>><BR>
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F - 67200 Strasbourg<BR>
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