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<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hi Ole , hi DM, <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Thanks for your
feedback . I am sure we can stabilize the requirements for
provenance Entities/Activities /Agents relations and their
design <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">by discussion with
pipeline designers / architects of the current astronomical
projects. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">This would be
interesting to discuss this in Adass and next interop together
with other participants. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Any other use-cases
can help and we are eager to take them into account in order to
test the model. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Best regards,
Mireille.<br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 17/10/2017 à 11:24, Ole Streicher a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ae196d40-dddc-0378-e09a-475bd12927d3@aip.de">
<pre wrap="">Hi Markus,
On 17.10.2017 09:25, Markus Demleitner wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 10:50:13PM +0200, Kristin Riebe wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Well, I think that 'wasDerivedFrom' is meant to be used to just give you the
main track, i.e. the main progenitors. So I expect a wasDerivedFrom
relationship only to those input files of the generating activity that are
the main inputs. E.g. if an image is corrected using a dark frame, then the
image was derived from the raw image, not from the dark frame. But the raw
image and dark frame are both inputs.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Well, but how exactly are they different? When using Provenance,
* if it's about debugging, a problem might equally well result from
an issue in the dark frame or the raw image (or perhaps an
interesting interaction between border cases in both).
* if it's about dependency modeling, the output will have to be
re-made whether it's the dark frame or the raw image that's
changed.
* if it's about giving credit, I'd argue if a dark frame (or, say, a
superflat) is done with enough deliberation that credit is given on
it in the first place, then this should be preserved in further
products, too.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
To give you a real-world use case, which is kind-of debugging: Someone
detects an "interesting structure" on a science-ready exposure, and to
be sure he wants to process the raw image with his own, alternative
pipeline (which may or may not need the same kind of calibration). Then
he has to find out "which is *the* raw image that I need to process?",
and the answer is wasDerivedFrom (maybe recursively).
This is also something that may be already provided by the metadata: the
standard ESO files have some provenance information in the header, and
they distinguish between "RAW" and "CALIB" input files. Just as an
example one that I currently work with:
ESO PRO REC1 ID = 'muse_scibasic'
ESO PRO REC1 DRS ID = 'cpl-6.5.1'
ESO PRO REC1 PIPE ID = 'muse/1.0'
ESO PRO REC1 RAW1 NAME = 'R_AST_RA05_02.301116.fits'
ESO PRO REC1 RAW1 CATG = 'OBJECT '
ESO PRO DATANCOM = 1
ESO PRO REC1 CAL1 NAME = 'badpix_table.fits'
ESO PRO REC1 CAL1 CATG = 'BADPIX_TABLE'
ESO PRO REC1 CAL2 NAME = [...]
Best regards
Ole
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--
Mireille Louys
CDS Laboratoire Icube
Observatoire de Strasbourg Telecom Physique Strasbourg
11 rue de l'Université 300, Bd Sebastien Brandt CS 10413
F- 67000-STRASBOURG F-67412 ILLKIRCH Cedex
tel: +33 3 68 85 24 34</pre>
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