<div dir="ltr">Francois,<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail-"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Sect. 4.3, PROV-VOTable -- I'm *really* unhappy that a VO-DML-defined<br>
data model defines a "custom" serialisation while the authors of the<br>
"mapping" standard (that's supposed to define how such DMs are to be<br>
represented in VOTable in general) work on something that looks entirely<br>
different. Everyone will eventually regret that. So, please, *please*<br>
don't have sect. 4.3; instead, help out the VO-DML mapping folks and<br>
perhaps fill in any parameters left open in there in a version 1.1 of<br>
ProvDM.<br>
</blockquote></span>
PROV-VOTable is nothing else than the transcription in VOTable of the tables and relationships of the ProvTAP schema.<br>
<br>
[...]<br>
<br>
PROV-VOTable format can allow input/output operations of a whole project provenance metadata in a database system.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>By definition, at least from what I saw in the Provenance WD, this is what the Mapping standard is supposed to cover. One difference with what you wrote is that you don't need to define ProvTAP first, which is rather another mapping target. </div><div><br></div><div>If ProvenanceDM has a valid VODML representation, VOTable representation of its instances will be defined by the standard mapping mechanism, without requiring an ad-hoc serialization definition.<br></div><div><br></div><div>To have two different potential serializations doesn't seem appropriate. So my +1 goes to Markus' suggestion. I had an iteration with Kristin as I hoped I could find some time to come up with standard VOTable serializations according to the Mapping WD for Provenance instances, but I've been working a lot on the STC and TimeSeries/Cube models and serializations, and couldn't get to Provenance just yet.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
As far as I understand this is not what is performed by the current effort on "VO-DML mapping into VOTable" which is more oriented on a (very complex) mapping of the model structure on a single table (or an unknown structure of tables ?)<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would argue that "very complex" in this context really means "standardized", but I don't think a conversation on the subjective perception of complexity is useful, my main point just being that the Mapping document does (almost) exactly what you described above, i.e.:</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">PROV-VOTable is nothing else than the transcription in VOTable of the tables and relationships of the <b>vodml-xml model</b>.<br>[...]<br>PROV-VOTable format can allow input/output operations of a whole project provenance metadata in a database system.</blockquote><div><br></div></div>Note my own edit in bold face.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">It's the same goal as your PROV-VOTable, really, just standardized for all data models rather than ad-hoc for a single model.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">We are definitely going to discuss suggestions on the simplification of the syntax for the Mapping WD, so if you have any such suggestions please send them our way!</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">By currently focusing on important data models like STC, Cube, and TimeSeries (and Provenance asap) we can finally see everything coming together. With such implementation experience, actual serializations of actual models to look at and compare we can then go back to discuss about the syntax more pragmatically.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Best,</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Omar.<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Omar Laurino<br>Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory<br>Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics<div><font color="#999999">100 Acorn Park Dr. R-377 MS-81</font></div><div><font color="#999999">02140 Cambridge, MA</font><br><span style="color:rgb(153,153,153)"><a value="+16174957227" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">(617) 495-7227</a></span></div></div></div>
</div></div>