DM Workshop wrap-up
Laurent Michel
laurent.michel at astro.unistra.fr
Mon Aug 23 16:42:19 CEST 2021
Gerard,
Just back from holidays...
I do not know what is the compatility level of the schematron against xsd1.1. Google is not very talkative on the topic either :-)
I went to XSD1.1 just because this did the job in an easy way and with one document only.
If using the Schematron does facilitate the validation, we can go in that direction anyway.
Laurent
Le 21/07/2021 à 17:57, Gerard Lemson a écrit :
> Hi Laurent
>
> I am curious whether XSD 1.1 would be able to express the constraints on VO_DML documents that right now are coded in schematron.
>
> Do you know if they are compatible?
>
> I already once created a refactored “types schema”, but that was based on the previous version.
>
> Will create a new one later today and PR it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Gerard
>
> *From:* dm-bounces at ivoa.net <dm-bounces at ivoa.net> *On Behalf Of *Laurent Michel
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:39
> *To:* Mark Taylor <m.b.taylor at bristol.ac.uk>
> *Cc:* dm at ivoa.net
> *Subject:* Re: DM Workshop wrap-up
>
> Hell all,
>
> This would be a very clean solution.
>
> - Gerard proposed to rephrase the XSD in order to isolate complexTypes from elements which should make easier the validation in
> the context of a VOTable.
>
> - We have been using XSD1.1 (with Python) because the merged syntax put many constraints on element attributes. This is a key
> point of the proposal. I do not think that such rules could be set with XSD1.0
>
> - The xerces web site does not look worry about this (https://xerces.apache.org/xerces2-j/faq-xs.html
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fxerces.apache.org%2Fxerces2-j%2Ffaq-xs.html&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918461664%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HqoYCguPIXEkE2hA3xig%2Feq%2B5x6u7KzDP2Qvi3i%2BOgM%3D&reserved=0>)
> but I’ve no experience with this code
>
> - I’ve no idea about how could this fit with volint either.
>
> Best
>
> Laurent
>
>
>
> On 21 Jul 2021, at 17:02, Mark Taylor <m.b.taylor at bristol.ac.uk <mailto:m.b.taylor at bristol.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> François,
>
> Yes, I think that use of the xs:any type is the right way to go here.
>
> However, that is already accommodated by the VOTable schema as it stands.
> Quoting fromhttps://www.ivoa.net/xml/VOTable/VOTable-1.4.xsd:
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ivoa.net%2Fxml%2FVOTable%2FVOTable-1.4.xsd%3A&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918471661%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=h7qP3ghdD7NIox35yioHOMIzNki66l%2BpW3UJpYolLHE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> <xs:complexType name="Resource">
> ...
> <!-- Suggested Doug Tody, to include new RESOURCE types -->
> <xs:any namespace="##other" processContents="lax" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
> ...
> </xs:complexType>
>
> which means that the elements from the VODML schema can be included
> within a RESOURCE element in a VOTable document, with no changes
> to the VOTable standard required at all (thanks to Markus for
> pointing this out).
> So something like this should work out of the box:
>
> <VOTABLE version="1.4"
> xmlns="http://www.ivoa.net/xml/VOTable/v1.3
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ivoa.net%2Fxml%2FVOTable%2Fv1.3&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918481649%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1yrcvCL10NIjIyhUSuca%2BwH76LXG8b7k3Z5XVzkRxhU%3D&reserved=0>"
> xmlns:dm="http://www.ivoa.net/xml/vodml
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ivoa.net%2Fxml%2Fvodml&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918481649%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HIEuRguR%2BpFPP%2BweFXhsDXBWqwbFUUZpE28p00ij8eA%3D&reserved=0>">
> <RESOURCE type="meta">
> <dm:VODML ...>
> <MODELS>
> </MODELS>
> ...
> </dm:VODML>
> </RESOURCE>
> <RESOURCE type="results">
> <TABLE>
> ...
> </TABLE>
> </RESOURCE>
> </VOTABLE>
>
> A VOTable document like that validates for me under the VOTable 1.4
> schema (e.g. xmllint -noout -schema VOTable1.4.xsd). At present votlint
> (http://www.starlink.ac.uk/stilts/sun256/votlint.html
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starlink.ac.uk%2Fstilts%2Fsun256%2Fvotlint.html&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918491644%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RDkkUNTM1DZL%2BoxGmQuAizOQBaawR6fI7Cm7zNcIpHk%3D&reserved=0>)
> does complain:
>
> WARNING: Element in wrong namespace (http://www.ivoa.net/xml/vodml
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ivoa.net%2Fxml%2Fvodml&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918491644%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mylabw%2BiZ%2BPVK7FfnwZaGpmKkfj5qg3OMQiTWHxfFIY%3D&reserved=0>nothttp://www.ivoa.net/xml/VOTable/v1.3
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ivoa.net%2Fxml%2FVOTable%2Fv1.3&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918501642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=D0PwW93JNz5Cz3l1Pd1nb1xKdFT%2FHAxwolYOMbRyrQQ%3D&reserved=0>)
>
> but that's really a votlint bug that I will fix.
>
> I would certainly favour this approach rather than adding new VOTable
> elements, to avoid unnecessary coupling between the VODML and VOTable
> standards.
>
> Concerning the xsi:type="mapping:VODML-type" attribute:
> as I understand it, that wouldn't work with a schema in the form
> of the one at
>
> https://github.com/ivoa-std/ModelInstanceInVot/blob/master/schema/xsd/merged-syntax.xsd
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fivoa-std%2FModelInstanceInVot%2Fblob%2Fmaster%2Fschema%2Fxsd%2Fmerged-syntax.xsd&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918501642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=PdCnTSVjPd0%2BOZcK1Kq57lBXsNQ9kkW%2BpTdg288N%2F80%3D&reserved=0>
>
> since that defines elements directly and not types (Gerard queried
> this stylistic decision during the DM workshop session #4).
>
> So I'm not quite sure how validation of the embedded VODML would
> proceed: either the schema could be rephrased to define types, or
> perhaps XSD validators are able to determine the required contents
> based on the <VODML> element name without requiring an xsi:type.
>
> One other point on the current merged-syntax.xsd: use of XMLSchema 1.1,
> instead of 1.0, makes it harder to validate using some tools.
> Java support at least is not so good for XSD 1.1, so I don't know
> whether votlint would be able to provide XSD validation for VODML
> if it was defined using this schema.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021, BONNAREL FRANCOIS wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> Considering the VOTAble schema versioning issue, with the "import" of a
> mapping syntax which may evoluate on its own I wonder i something like the
> following could work.
> 1 ) in next VOTABLE schema version, create a "VODML" tag inside VOTable of
> type "anyType" (minoccurs = 0 of course)
> 2 ) in VOTABLE documents type this VODML tag with an
> xsi:type="mapping:VODML-type" , with "mapping" xmlns defined as the last
> version of the mapping xml schema (can be done with attributes of the VODML
> tag)
> 3 ) as far as I remember this would make the two schemata independant and
> does not require that VOTABLE documents import the mapping schema
>
> Do you think it could work ?
>
> Cheers
> François
>
> Le 15/07/2021 à 11:36, Laurent Michel a écrit :
>
> Dear DM,
>
> Last Tuesday we had our last DM workshop meeting.
> This concluded a fruitful 7-month process whose main conclusions and
> prospects are listed below.
>
> An overview of the work done has been presented by LM
> (https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/Dm2021/MAY2021-ws41.pdf
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ivoa.net%2Finternal%2FIVOA%2FDm2021%2FMAY2021-ws41.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918511632%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tz4LKSt5AyYtxpQC0TiTsl%2FAWphch6IBgW2XWu3%2Fu2g%3D&reserved=0>
> <https://wiki.ivoa.net/internal/IVOA/Dm2021/MAY2021-ws41.pdf
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ivoa.net%2Finternal%2FIVOA%2FDm2021%2FMAY2021-ws41.pdf&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918521627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BqAbiPgT%2B38qQzBUMkVoePwmYMvbtYAKb372UlYTvH4%3D&reserved=0>>)
>
> Conclusions in short
> ================
>
> • Models:
> • Meas, Coord, PhotDM, Dataset, Cube and MANGO accepted
> • New use-cases to be investigated
> • X-RAY Astronomy
> • Asteroids, multi-core datasets
> • CTA and MM astronomy : meta-data characterization
>
> • Data Provider / client specific use-cases
> • Need for annotations to help processing spectra
> • Need to associate parameters
> • Need for a simple description of the photometric calibration
> • Need for a simple view on Provenance
> • Annotation on the fly feasible
> • Model-based PyVO API easy to design
>
> • Mapping syntax
> • Divergence between the 2 proposals (VODML mapping and ModelInstanceInVot)
> • Proof of concept for a YAML serialization of model instances
>
> Annotation
> =========
> An important effort has been made over the last 6 weeks to merge the 2
> syntax proposals:
> • see onhttps://github.com/ivoa-std/ModelInstanceInVot
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fivoa-std%2FModelInstanceInVot&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918521627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ytc00Qb5Rp9vlyJjMznOaHPlpFjeoYHoSFtbVrVwtqw%3D&reserved=0>
> <https://github.com/ivoa-std/ModelInstanceInVot
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fivoa-std%2FModelInstanceInVot&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918531624%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7XbwaNytqIOl5hIBVcUjy7vZOf3RX4p48zlj21QnerE%3D&reserved=0>>
>
> • 3 items available so far:
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark Taylor Astronomical Programmer Physics, Bristol University, UK
> m.b.taylor at bristol.ac.uk <mailto:m.b.taylor at bristol.ac.uk>http://www.star.bristol.ac.uk/~mbt/
> <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.star.bristol.ac.uk%2F~mbt%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cglemson1%40jhu.edu%7C804c46a40e744d8405b408d94c5db9de%7C9fa4f438b1e6473b803f86f8aedf0dec%7C0%7C0%7C637624788918531624%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1n3fN%2FwObTBg0MiUceJ%2FBDXAxKcNanfOvRhTvHLegNU%3D&reserved=0>
>
--
English version: https://www.deepl.com/translator
--
jesuischarlie/Tunis/Paris/Bruxelles/Berlin
Laurent Michel
SSC XMM-Newton
Tél : +33 (0)3 68 85 24 37
Fax : +33 (0)3 )3 68 85 24 32
Université de Strasbourg <http://www.unistra.fr>
Observatoire Astronomique
11 Rue de l'Université
F - 67200 Strasbourg
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