Time Series Cube DM - IVOA Note
francois.bonnarel at astro.unistra.fr
Thu Mar 2 23:25:49 CET 2017
Mireille Louys, Laurent Michel and I discussed the TimeSeries Cube
data model here in Strasbourg.
Before going to serialization we try to go back to the basic concepts
needed to represent TimeSeries and try to match them to Cube Data model
as Jiri did (although we apparently differ eventually)
In our approach, we focus on the time axis considering it as generally
irregularly sampled, in other words "sparsed".
For each time sample we have a (set of) measurements, which may be one
single flux (in the case of light curves) or whatever scalar value, but
can also be an observations dataset spanned on other data axes
(spectrum, image, radio cube, velocity map....) Actually for each time
sample we have an ND cube (of whatever dimension excluding time). And if
a single data point , or single value (flux) can be seen as a degenerate
case of an ND cube then everything is a set of NDCubes for different
time samples !!!
This concept allows to describe Light curves, time-sequences of
spectra, of 2D-images, of (hyper)cubes.
By doing this we are not fully consistent with ND cube data model : we
have something like a mixture between SparseCube and NDImage : the Time
axis is sparsed and each sample on the Time Axis indexes an ND Cube . It
Could be a third specialisation of a generic NDCube ?
François in collaboration with Laurent and Mireille.
Le 27/02/2017 à 16:56, CresitelloDittmar, Mark a écrit :
> I'm on leave this week.. so just a quick reply.
> This approach is basically butting an instance against a role across
> model boundaries, instead of defining a relationship. This is a very
> different approach than the vo-dml and compliant model work has been
> taking over the past few years. I don't even know how to express that
> in the model. It seems a bit late in the game to be expressing this
> concern so urgently.
> (Harrumph), off to enjoy my vacation,
> On Monday, February 27, 2017, Markus Demleitner
> <msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de
> <mailto:msdemlei at ari.uni-heidelberg.de>> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 08:50:24PM -0500, CresitelloDittmar, Mark
> > Can you make a statement about how you think this proposed
> > would effect
> > 1) Validation
> You separately validate against each version of each DM that is in
> the annotation. This is actually, I claim, what matters to clients.
> Say I'm a simple plot program -- I'm not at all concerned about
> PubDIDs or about objects observed, all I need is figure out which
> axis make up the cube in what way. So, I need valid NDCube-1.x, but
> I don't break if the data provider chose to annotate with Dataset-1.0
> or Dataset-2.0.
> Say I'm a component that can transform coordinates between different
> frames. I'm concerned about correct STC-2.x annotation, but I
> couldn't care less if the coordinates I'm converting are axes of an
> NDCube or are source positions in a source DM, or yet something else,
> and again I don't care at all about any other DM that might be
> instanciated in that particular dataset.
> Say I'm a cube analysis program. In that case I'll use NDCube to
> understand the structure, STC to do reprojections and regridding,
> perhaps photometry to convert the units of the dependent axis, or
> some other DM if the cube values require it. And for all of these, I
> can simultaneously support multiple versions (independently from each
> other and thus relatively cheaply), so I can maintain backwards
> compatibility for a long time.
> > 2) Interoperability
> Interoperability is actually what this is about. If we build
> Megamodels doing everything, we either can't evolve the model or will
> break all kinds of clients needlessly all the time -- typcially,
> whatever annotation they expect *would* be there, but because their
> positition in the embedding DM changed, they can't find it any more.
> Client authors will, by the way, quickly figure this out and start
> hacking around it in weird ways, further harming interoperability;
> we've seen it with VOTable, which is what led us to the
> recommendations in the XML versioning note.
> Keeping individual DMs small and as independent as humanly possible,
> even if one has to be incompatibly changed, most other functionality
> will just keep working and code won't have to be touched (phewy!).
> I'd argue by pulling all the various aspects into one structure,
> we're following the God object anti-pattern
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object>). Ok, since we're using
> composition rather than a flat aggregation, it's not a clear case,
> but I maintain we're buying into many of the issues with God objects
> without having to.
> > ???
> > The Cube model has the following links to other models
> > a) Dataset - defines itself as an extension of ObsDataset
> > b) Coordsys - where coordinate system objects and the pattern
> for Frames
> > are defined
> > c) Coords - where the pattern for Coordinates is defined (and
> > for several domains, but that is not important here)
> > d) Trans - where Transform mappings are defined.
> For all of these I'd ask: How does it help clients to have these
> pulled together in one place? What can it do that it couldn't do if
> these were separate annotations?
> That's actually my personal guideline for DM design: "But does it
> help clients?"
> > You say that cube should not import Coords to identify what a
> > is.. that it simply indicates that 'it has Coordinates'.
> > It currently says that an Observable is a
> coords:DerivedCoordinate .. which
> > is an abstract object restricted to
> > follow the pattern defined in that model. Any model can
> implement the
> > pattern and declare itself as that type of Coordinate,
> > and be instantly usable in a cube instance.
> > Without this explicit link, then one cannot validate across these
> > boundaries.
> > An instance would have
> > Element with role cube:DataAxis.observable
> > Instance with type <whatever implemented "Coordinate"
> type> ie:
> > spec:FluxCoord
> > But a validator cannot check if FluxCoord is actually a
> Coordinate... (I
> > could put a ds:Curation instance
> > there.. the role and the instance would be individually valid,
> but the
> > combination is nonsense).
> I'd maintain there's far too much that might work as coordinate
> (Filter name, anyone?) or, even worse, observable to even hope that a
> static validator will provide more benefit that harm (in terms of
> making things hard that clients would otherwise have no issue with).
> In the end, people will annotate something as a Coordinate just to
> shut up the validator and confuse actual users of a Coordinate DM,
> making things worse. And have mis-pointed axes really been a
> problem in any published dataset?
> So, I'm afraid I find the use case "make sure the thing referenced
> from an NDCube axis is derived from Coordinate" too unconvincing to
> warrant the complication of linking otherwise independent DMs.
> > And.. without the link, there is no binding the various
> implementations of
> > Coordinate to the pattern.
> I have to admit that I find the current artefacts for current STC on
> volute somewhat hard to figure out. But from what I can see I'd be
> unsure how that binding would help me as a client; that may, of
> course, be because I've not quite understood the pattern.
> If this turned out to be true, I'd take that as an indication that
> Coordinate should move into ivoa or, perhaps, a DM of its own, being
> so generic a concept that it actually needs sharing across
> > Interoperability would suffer because there would be no guarantee of
> > compatibility of different Coordinate types.
> > My code that understands the Coords pattern would have no hope of
> > understanding any portion of
> > independently defined Coordinates.
> What does "understand" mean here? This is not a rhethorical question
> -- I'm actually trying to understand where the complication comes
> from. What information, in addition to what you get from STC or
> comparable annotation, does your code require, and is there really no
> other way to communicate it without having to have a hard link
> between NDCube and STC (or any other "physical" DM, really)?
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