Quantity "tables"

Ed Shaya Edward.J.Shaya.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov
Fri Jan 23 13:33:26 PST 2004


Tony Linde wrote:

>Hi Ed,
>
>I don't think it is an issue so much of optional vs mandatory as of
>recognised and unrecognised.
>
>If an element is defined in a schema, <Galactic_lat ... /> in AstroData.xsd
>then any data document, galaxy.xml, which namespaces AstroData and includes
>the Galactic_lat element can be used by software which understands what to
>do with AstroData type data. 
>
>Now, if your data document includes an element <distance_Cepheid ... />
>which belongs to a separate namespace (referencing Ed.xsd, say) then the
>software knows to ignore that element.
>  
>
Software would see from Ed.xsd that ed:distance_Cepheid extends (or 
restricts) VO:Quantity and hence should be treated and constructed as a 
Quantity.  It knows from Ed.xsd how it is restricted and how it differs 
from VO:distance_Cepheid.  It does not use it exactly as 
VO:distance_Cepheid, but it may know where to find 
edsOWL#distance_Cepheid and from there, it knows things like how to 
convert to a VO:distance_Cepheid or to a distance_modulus.

We can get the same effect from <Quantity type="ed:distance_Cepheid" 
../> except now it does not look into Ed.xsd for structural 
information.  It is constructed as free form as any Quantity.

>However, if every element is called Quantity (namespaced as AstroAll.xsd)
>with a type attribute which is not enumerated then how does the software
>know whether it can handle the contents of the document. It recognises the
>namespace AstroAll and the Quantity element but does not know what to do
>with the type="distance_Cepheid" attribute. The software should know what it
>can do and cannot from the namespacing, not from the contents of attributes.
>
>Or that is my understanding of xml, at least.
>
>Cheers,
>Tony. 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ed Shaya [mailto:Edward.J.Shaya.1 at gsfc.nasa.gov] 
>>Sent: 23 January 2004 17:57
>>To: Tony Linde
>>Cc: dm at ivoa.net
>>Subject: Re: Quantity "tables"
>>
>>
>>Tony,
>>    Another thought on this.  We should have  all sorts of 
>>metadata type 
>>quantities available (observer, filter, date, telescope, observatory, 
>>project, etc).  But, I do not think that the Galactic_lat.xsd would 
>>require any of this.  Data providers should put in whatever Metadata 
>>Quantities they have on each Quantity, but maybe they don't 
>>have much. Maybe a date should be required, but even that 
>>does seem required for 
>>say a galaxy at high red shifts and the value is averaged over many 
>>measurements over many years.   So, I don't think we can make many 
>>useful restrictions beyond the general Quantity for  many of  our  
>>concepts. About the only sure restriction is that the units must of 
>>'dimension' angle.
>>
>>Tony Linde wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Quick question, Ed: why is everything a <Quantity ... /> 
>>>      
>>>
>>element? Why 
>>    
>>
>>>not a <Galactic_long ... />, <Galactic_lat ... /> etc? Isn't 
>>>      
>>>
>>it harder 
>>    
>>
>>>to use the metadata if you've got to work with types of 
>>>      
>>>
>>Quantity rather 
>>    
>>
>>>than specific elements?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Tony.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: owner-dm at eso.org [mailto:owner-dm at eso.org] On Behalf 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Of Ed Shaya
>>    
>>
>>>>Sent: 22 January 2004 15:56
>>>>To: dm at ivoa.net
>>>>Subject: Quantity "tables"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is a cross-post with VOTable.
>>>>
>>>>Simply put XML is hierarchical and a table is not.  Hence,
>>>>there is this misfit between XML tools (XQuery, XPath, XSLT,
>>>>WebServices) and our XML/Table efforts (Astrores, VOTable, 
>>>>XDF, Dataset, etc).  XML's hierarchies make it more suitable 
>>>>for describing an object's structure.  Tables are compact and 
>>>>human-friendly, especially when one gets to large (but not too
>>>>large) amounts of info.  We want it all, but we are 
>>>>struggling to make tables fit beautifully into XML, and 
>>>>falling into circles of inconsistencies.
>>>>
>>>>In true XML, tables are something to convert to or from.
>>>>XHTML has tables explicitly described, but XHTML is a display 
>>>>language.  One transforms from your true XML into XHTML only 
>>>>at display time.
>>>>
>>>>XML is meant to interchange with relational databases.  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Using a schema 
>>    
>>
>>>>based on true XML, one creates a database configuration and 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>flattens 
>>    
>>
>>>>the documents into one or several tables.  The tables are 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>now strictly 
>>    
>>
>>>>speaking outside of the XML realm but an XML front end 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>allows one to 
>>    
>>
>>>>address the data as if it were still in true XML.  
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Although, it should 
>>    
>>
>>>>be noted that native XML databases are getting pretty mature and
>>>>maybe we won't be doing this much longer.
>>>>
>>>>I conclude that we should start off with a true XML
>>>>description of data (ie, not tabular) and then after that 
>>>>matures, rethink tabular formats, but as either a compressed 
>>>>transmission mode or as a display mode or as the internals of 
>>>>an object-relational database.  That way, all tools interface 
>>>>with the data in true XML fashions.  If I am right, then it 
>>>>would follow that even our image/table display tools like 
>>>>Alladin and Mirage  would benefit from a hierarchical view of data.
>>>>
>>>>Just to make clear what I mean by a "hierarchical view of
>>>>data", below is an example of the "non-tabular way".  This is 
>>>>just one galaxy and one must imagine that there are many in 
>>>>this object oriented database.  It would be easy now to 
>>>>extend this to include additional metadata about each 
>>>>measurement, who observed it, when, with which instrument, 
>>>>etc.  It would also be interested to create a little schema 
>>>>for each Quantity/@type.  A B_T_Quantity.xsd which extends 
>>>>Quantity could substitute for the <Quantity type="B_T"/> and 
>>>>provide suitable extensions and restrictions on both metadata 
>>>>and datatypes.
>>>>
>>>>OK.  Now the crux of this all is that the Tabular form of
>>>>this is done by a auto-flattener that simply turns this into 
>>>>a series of tables exactly as an XML to DB converter does. 
>>>>Now you have a compact form to transfer and one that can go 
>>>>right into your local/private DB.  If it is an object 
>>>>relational DB you should be able to access the data with the 
>>>>original true XML schema and XPATH or XQuery.
>>>>
>>>>======================================================
>>>><AstroObject type="galaxy" name="NGC 300">
>>>>   <Quantity type="altname" name="PGC
>>>>Num"><value>3238</value><units><unitless/></units></Quantity>
>>>>   <Group name="position">
>>>>       <Quantity type="RA
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>J2000"><value>00:54:52.6</value><units><unit>xs:time</unit></u
>>>>nits></Quantity>
>>>>       <Quantity type="DE
>>>>J2000"><value>-37:40:57</value><units><unit>sexigesimal</unit>
>>>></units></Quantity>
>>>>   </Group>
>>>>   <Quantity type="Galactic_long" 
>>>>name="l"><value>299.2306</value><units><unit>degree</unit></un
>>>>its></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="Galactic_lat"
>>>>name="b"><value>-79.4210</value><units><unit>degree</unit></un
>>>>its></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity
>>>>type="SGL"><value>259.8113</value><units><unit>degree</unit></
>>>>units></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity
>>>>type="SGB"><value>-9.4984</value><units><unit>degree</unit></u
>>>>nits></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="brightness absolute B total"
>>>>name="B_T"><value>8.95</value><units><unit>magnitude</unit></u
>>>>nits></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="extinction I-band"
>>>>name="A_I"><value>0.02</value><units><unit>magnitude</unit></u
>>>>nits></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="extinction B-band"
>>>>name="A_B"><value>0.055</value><units><unit>magnitude</unit></
>>>>units></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="axis ratio b/a" shape
>>>>name="b/a"><value>0.73</value><unitless/></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="morphology type T" 
>>>>name="Ttype"><value>7</value><unitless/></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="morphology type M" 
>>>>name="Mtype"><value>SA(s)d</value><unitless/></Quantity>
>>>>   <Group type="velocity radial">
>>>>       <Quantity type="geocentric" name="V_gsr">
>>>>           <value errorValue="4." >101.</value>
>>>>           <units><unit>km</unit><unit power="-1">s</unit></units>
>>>>       </Quantity>
>>>>       <Quantity type="heliocentric" name="V_helio">
>>>>           <value errorValue="4.">144.</value>
>>>>           <units><unit>km</unit><unit power="-1">s</unit></units>
>>>>       </Quantity>
>>>>   </Group>
>>>>   <Quantity type="linewidth 21cm @20percentOfPeak" name="W20">
>>>>       <value ErrorValue="7.">166.</value>
>>>>       <units><unit>km</unit><unit power="-1">s</unit></units>
>>>>   </Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="distance Cepheid" name="Cepheid dist"><value 
>>>>errorVAlue="2.3" 
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>26.66</value><units><unit>Mpc</unit></units></Quantity>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>   <Quantity type="distance TRGB" name="TRGB
>>>>dist"><value>UNKNOWN</value><units><unit>Mpc</unit></units><
>>>>        
>>>>
>>/Quantity>
>>    
>>
>>>>   <Quantity type="distance PNLF" name="PNLF 
>>>>dist"><value>26.9</value><units><unit>Mpc</unit></units></Quantity>
>>>>   <Quantity type="distance SBF" name="SBF 
>>>>dist"><value>UNKNOWN</value><units><unit>Mpc</unit></units><
>>>>        
>>>>
>>/Quantity>
>>    
>>
>>>>   <Quantity type="distance TF" name="Tully-Fisher 
>>>>dist"><value>UNKNOWN</value><units><unit>Mpc</unit></units><
>>>>        
>>>>
>>/Quantity>
>>    
>>
>>>>   <Quantity type="axes"><valueList>21.9 
>>>>15.5</valueList><units><unit>arcmin</unit></units></Quantity>
>>>>   <photometry>
>>>>       <region>
>>>>              <fitsFile href="HSTDA/retrieve/n300.u65w0201r.fits">
>>>>               <instrument>WFPC2</instrument>
>>>>               <observationDate>2001:05:06</observationDate>
>>>>               
>>>><rightAscension>1.372291666667E+01</rightAscension>    
>>>>               <declination>-3.768333333333E+01</declination>
>>>>               <rotation>168.502</rotation>
>>>>               <filters>F814W</filters>
>>>>               <exposureTime units="second">40.</exposureTime>
>>>>               <proposalId>8599</proposalId>
>>>>               <observer>Boeker</observer>
>>>>               <history>
>>>>                   <date>2001:08:24</date>
>>>>                   <creator>Felicia Tam</creator>
>>>>                   <item>mosaic of all 4 ccds</item>
>>>>               </history>
>>>>              </fitsFile>
>>>>              <fitsFile href="HSTDA/retrieve/n300.u65w0202r.fits">
>>>>               <telescope>HST</telescope>
>>>>               <instrument>WFPC2</instrument>
>>>>               <observationDate>2001:05:06</observationDate>
>>>>               
>>>><rightAscension>1.372291666667E+01</rightAscension>    
>>>>               <declination>-3.768333333333E+01</declination>
>>>>               <rotation>168.502</rotation>
>>>>               <filters>F814W</filters>
>>>>               <exposureTime units="second">300.</exposureTime>
>>>>               <proposalId>8599</proposalId>
>>>>               <observer>Boeker</observer>
>>>>               <history>
>>>>                   <date>2001:08:24</date>
>>>>                   <creator>Felicia Tam</creator>
>>>>                   <item>mosaic of all 4 ccds</item>
>>>>               </history>
>>>>              </fitsFile>
>>>>              <fitsFile href="HSTDA/retrieve/n300.u65w0203r.fits">
>>>>               <telescope>HST</telescope>
>>>>               <instrument>WFPC2</instrument>
>>>>               <observationDate>2001:05:06</observationDate>
>>>>               
>>>><rightAscension>1.372291666667E+01</rightAscension>    
>>>>               <declination>-3.768333333333E+01</declination>
>>>>               <rotation>168.502</rotation>
>>>>               <filters>F814W</filters>
>>>>               <exposureTime units="second">300.</exposureTime>
>>>>               <proposalId>8599</proposalId>
>>>>               <observer>Boeker</observer>
>>>>               <history>
>>>>                   <date>2001:08:24</date>
>>>>                   <creator>Felicia Tam</creator>
>>>>                   <item>mosaic of all 4 ccds</item>
>>>>               </history>
>>>>              </fitsFile>
>>>>       </region>
>>>>       <region>
>>>>              <fitsFile href="shoko/n300.fits">
>>>>               <telescope>HST</telescope>
>>>>               <instrument>WFPC2</instrument>
>>>>               <observationDate>2001:07:02</observationDate>
>>>>               
>>>><rightAscension>1.375416666667E+01</rightAscension>    
>>>>               <declination>-3.758000000000E+01</declination>
>>>>               <rotation>-154.402</rotation>
>>>>               <filters>F814W</filters>
>>>>               <exposureTime units="second">600.</exposureTime>
>>>>               <proposalId>9162</proposalId>
>>>>               <observer>Tully</observer>
>>>>               <history>
>>>>                   <date>2001:07:09</date>
>>>>                   <creator>Shoko Sakai</creator>
>>>>                   <item>mosaic of all 4 ccds</item>
>>>>                   <item>cosmic ray cleaned and summed</item>
>>>>               </history>
>>>>               </fitsFile>
>>>>               <psFile name="NGC 300 Color-Magnitude Diagram"
>>>>href="shoko/n300cmd.ps"/>
>>>>       </region>
>>>>   </photometry>
>>>>   <kinematics>
>>>>       <reference>
>>>>           <title>H I studies of the Sculptor group 
>>>>galaxies. VI - NGC 
>>>>300</title>
>>>>           
>>>><author><initial>D</initial><lastName>Puche</lastName></author>
>>>>          
>>>><author><initial>C</initial><lastName>Carignan</lastName></author>
>>>>           
>>>><author><initial>A</initial><lastName>Bosma</lastName></author>
>>>>           <abstract>A study of the kinematics of the 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Sculptor group 
>>    
>>
>>>>galaxy NGC 300 is presented.  VLA observations of the H I 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>line show a 
>>    
>>
>>>>dramatically warped H I disk just outside the optical disk. A 
>>>>two-component mass model, fitted to the data, gives a total mass of 
>>>>2.4E10 solar masses at the last observed point of the 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>rotation curve. 
>>    
>>
>>>>This value implies an (M/L_B)global about 11 solar masses/solar 
>>>>luminosity for the galaxy which is compared with the total dynamical
>>>>(M/L_B)dyn of the group. This comparison suggests that dark 
>>>>matter is probably more concentrated around the galaxies of 
>>>>the group than uniformly distributed in the intergalactic medium.
>>>>           </abstract>
>>>>           <bibcode>1990AJ....100.1468P</bibcode>
>>>>       </reference>
>>>>   </kinematics>
>>>></galaxy>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>




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