<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear DAL,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I need to come back to this one issue of the missing INTERSECTS support for point-valued columns.</div><div class="">I quote here the relevant ADQL2.1 text:</div><div class="">> The arguments to INTERSECTS SHOULD be geometric expressions evaluating to
either BOX, CIRCLE, </div><div class="">> POLYGON, or REGION. Previous versions of this
specification allow POINTs as well and require servers </div><div class="">> to interpret the
expression as a CONTAINS with the POINT moved into the first position. Servers </div><div class="">> SHOULD still implement that behaviour, but clients SHOULD NOT expect it. This
behaviour will be </div><div class="">> dropped in the next major version of this specification. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here is my simple and useful ObsCore use case:</div><div class=""> Find *all* ESO products whose footprints (s_region) intersects a given region.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Some of the ESO products have an s_region expressed as a polygon (e.g. images),</div><div class="">some other products (e.g. all the ESO spectra) have an s_region that is a point.</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">Do I understand correctly that a user executing this ADQL:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> select * from ivoa.ObsCore where INTERSECTS( s_region, circle(‘’,83.867,-69.276,1)=1) </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">should not expect to see returned any record with a point-valued s_region,</div><div class="">that is, none of the ESO spectra?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If that is true:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">how will a user know that such a query might not return products like the ESO spectra or visibilities?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">and why should a user instead type the following ADQL to ensure that ALL products are returned?</div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">SELECT * from ivoa.ObsCore where </div><div class="">( INTERSECTS(s_region,CIRCLE('ICRS',83.867,-69.276, 0.1)) = 1 )</div><div class="">or</div><div class="">( CONTAINS(s_region,CIRCLE('ICRS',83.867,-69.276, 0.1)) = 1 )</div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Should we change the ESO implementation and return, for spectra and visibilities,</div><div class="">a CIRCLE with a zero radius instead of a point?</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">Many thanks,</div><div class="">Alberto</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> <br class=""><div class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 10 May 2016, at 10:00, Markus Demleitner <<a href="mailto:msdemlei@ari.uni-heidelberg.de" class="">msdemlei@ari.uni-heidelberg.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hi,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On Mon, May 09, 2016 at 03:34:11AM -0700, Walter Landry wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Patrick Dowler <<a href="mailto:pdowler.cadc@gmail.com" class="">pdowler.cadc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">comments below<br class=""><br class="">On 8 May 2016 at 16:55, Walter Landry <<a href="mailto:wlandry@caltech.edu" class="">wlandry@caltech.edu</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Everyone,<br class=""><br class="">Here are some comments on the TAP 1.1 proposal.<br class=""><br class="">1) The text proposes<br class=""><br class=""> INTERSECTS and CONTAINS are required. POINT, CIRCLE, and POLYGON<br class=""> are required. POINT (and point-valued columns) cannot be used as<br class=""> an argument to INTERSECTS.<br class=""><br class=""> What is the rationale for not allowing POINT's in INTERSECTS?<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">It is redundant with CONTAINS and iirc some people found INTERSECTS<br class="">decaying to CONTAINS a pain to implement...<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Ok. That is surprising to me. We already need to have cases for<br class=""><br class=""> (circle,circle)<br class=""> (circle,polygon)<br class=""> (polygon,circle)<br class=""> (polygon,polygon)<br class=""><br class="">So it would just be adding a few more cases.<br class=""><br class=""> (point,point)<br class=""> (point,circle)<br class=""> (circle,point)<br class=""> (point,polygon)<br class=""> (polygon,point)<br class=""></blockquote><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I'm always for "as few special cases as possible", so more than</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">doubling the number of special cases without adding functionality to</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">the language does not seem a terribly good deal to me. And of</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">course, given we're talking about floating point coordinates, I'd</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">like to scare away people from (point, point) arguments to geometric</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">functions anyway.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">My take: CONTAINS isn't that bad. And there's enough implementors</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">got (and will still get) wrong with geometries in ADQL anyway.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 09 May 2016, at 10:01, Patrick Dowler <<a href="mailto:pdowler.cadc@gmail.com" class="">pdowler.cadc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="float: none; display: inline !important;">On 8 May 2016 at 16:55, Walter Landry <</span><a href="mailto:wlandry@caltech.edu" class="">wlandry@caltech.edu</a><span class="" style="float: none; display: inline !important;">> wrote:</span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Hi Everyone,<br class=""><br class="">Here are some comments on the TAP 1.1 proposal.<br class=""><br class="">1) The text proposes<br class=""><br class=""> INTERSECTS and CONTAINS are required. POINT, CIRCLE, and POLYGON<br class=""> are required. POINT (and point-valued columns) cannot be used as<br class=""> an argument to INTERSECTS.<br class=""><br class=""> What is the rationale for not allowing POINT's in INTERSECTS?<br class=""></blockquote><br class=""><span class="" style="float: none; display: inline !important;">It is redundant with CONTAINS and iirc some people found INTERSECTS</span><br class=""><span class="" style="float: none; display: inline !important;">decaying to CONTAINS a pain to implement...</span></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><span class="" style="float: none; display: inline !important;"><br class=""></span></div></div></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>