[csp] February 2022 - CSP Meeting

Fri Jan 21 09:24:40 CET 2022

Hi Ada, all,

I went through the modified survey.
It took me roughly 7' to:
- read
- click bullets/choices
- enter short texts

I like the survey but, as per the 7' above, I tend to agree with Janet on
the "Data usage and interoperability" section. We can cut some time there,
especially considering the set of free text questions that can
consume quite some time (not fitting the 15' schema, I would say).

In that section I would turn the first question into a multiple selection
and add a bullet on interoperability plans different from only yes/no.

Otherwise the survey looks really good to me.

I have a comment on the point raised by Vandana about access vs. analysis
use cases.
I suppose this would be solved with direct contact on the second pass
proposed by Janet, but from the standardisation perspective it's one of the
most fuzzy thresholds, so it would be better to keep that in mind (even if
not made explicit in the survey).

Cheers
    Marco

Il giorno gio 20 gen 2022 alle ore 20:17 Janet Evans <janet at cfa.harvard.edu>
ha scritto:

> Hi Ada,
>
> I had a look.  I agree with Vandana and think your edits were good.  One
> thing I wonder is about the IVOA specific questions … Survey questions that
> start with “Data Formats and Data models”, "Data Access 1", "Data Access
> 2", "Data Access 3” … perhaps are better for a 2nd pass after responses to
> this initial survey and followup contact.  Wanted a consensus before
> considering my own edits.
>
> Thanks,
> -janet
>
>
> Janet Evans
> Chandra Data System Software Development Manager
> Chandra X-ray Center
> Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian
>
> Office: (617) 495 7160 | Cell: (617) 688 6084
> 60 Garden Street | MS 81 | Cambridge, MA 02138
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2022, at 12:44 PM, ada nebot <ada.nebot at astro.unistra.fr>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Vandana,
>
> Thanks a lot for all your input! This is to my knowledge the same survey
> that was sent some time ago. It did get some responses but I think there is
> room for improvement.
>
> I agree with you that the survey is rather long and that shortening it and
> announcing how long it takes to fill out would help in getting more
> responses. I think we should aim for about 10 minutes.
>
> I have made a new version taking into account most of your comments. I
> also added sections to structure it a bit. Each section is rather short so
> I think that helps. And when possible I’ve limited the answers to actions
> rather than free text. It’s faster to fill-out and it contains the same
> information.
>
> I’ve started a new document for that:
>
> *https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1urLrimVXC7yRnbC3i3XK4yYCSR8BQ30JkEkX5bw8xRE/edit?usp=sharing
> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1urLrimVXC7yRnbC3i3XK4yYCSR8BQ30JkEkX5bw8xRE/edit?usp%3Dsharing&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw3FHbCOJ3YjhpUX1WZp4McP>*
>
> In principle you should be able to edit it, let me know if that’s not the
> case.
>
> Cheers,
> Ada
>
> --
> Astronome Adjointe
> CDS, Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg (ObAS)
> UMR 7550 Université de Strasbourg
> 11, rue de l'Université, F-67000 Strasbourg
> +33 (0) 3 68 85 24 20
>
> On 19 Jan 2022, at 18:22, Vandana Desai <desai at ipac.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone.
>
> I like the idea of reaching out to missions! Is the survey that you linked
> similar to the one that was sent out before? Did it get a lot of responses?
>
>
> My main concern is that it is very long (over 30 questions, some long
> form!) and I think many people will scroll down and give up.
>
> Some suggestions:
>
> - Have a little text at the top that describes the purpose of the survey
> and possible benefit to the person who agrees to fill it out. Presumably we
> are doing outreach to reach people who haven't already entirely bought into
> the IVOA? If so, then I think we need to offer more of a bridge and make it
> easier.
>
> - Provide an estimate of the time it will take to fill out the survey.
>
> - Think about which questions could be removed to make the survey shorter.
> Some of the questions are not required (no red asterisk). Can we jettison
> them?
>
> - What is missing I think is an invitation to offer help if there is
> someone who is interested but doesn't know much. Is there a way for them to
> consult with someone at the IVOA who could give them pointers?
>
> - Why are we asking for peoples' emails? If it's to contact them
> for follow-up, then we should ask permission to do that.
>
> Possibilities for shortening if that's of interest:
>
>    - Are we learning anything actionably different from question 1.5
>    (first light) versus 4.8 (decision timescale)?
>    - I don't understand the point of 1.6 (state of software at first
>    light).
>    - Could combine 2.1 (primary products) and 2.2 (secondary products)
>    unless we really need that level of detail. If so, why?
>    - Why do we care about proprietary period?
>    - I wonder if 3.2 (data access use cases) and 3.3 (data analysis use
>    cases) could be combined.
>    - 4.1 is required, but there's not a choice for "I don't plan to
>    incorporate IVOA standards into my project". A user could choose "Other",
>    but it's awkward. Also, there should be a choice for "I don't know".
>    - Could questions 4.2 and 4.3.1 and 4.3.2 be either combined or made
>    more obviously distinct?
>    - 4.7 seems out of place in this particular survey, and covered at
>    least partially by 4.6.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 7:39 AM ada nebot <ada.nebot at astro.unistra.fr>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I would like to fix the date of the meeting to *Friday the 4th of
>> February at 17 UTC*.
>>
>> In preparation for item 5 in the agenda: *Coming missions & data
>> distribution plans.  **Survey*?
>>
>> Please have a look at the following survey:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19bF_tmJ9FYm1Zs-cgOOr70Va-s_IO3fDV8Th5EdjS1Y/edit?ts=61561503
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19bF_tmJ9FYm1Zs-cgOOr70Va-s_IO3fDV8Th5EdjS1Y/edit?ts%3D61561503&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw2LvJJ7Krf2TLhnlFTnQg6t>
>>
>> If such a survey gets sent by the Exec members to each country we might
>> be able to know which are the missions (too many for me to work out) that
>> would benefit from having a VO access and get in touch with them. This has
>> been done in the past and I think it is time to do it again. There are some
>> missions that need to be targeted soon, e.g. IXPE and SVOM. We have seen
>> that some older missions are also interested in distributing their data
>> using VO tech (e.g. Arecibo). So we shouldn’t necessarily limit to ongoing
>> and future missions.
>>
>> Please *have a look at the survey*. Is it ok as is to be sent around or
>> do we need to modify some parts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ada
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 Jan 2022, at 13:42, ada nebot <ada.nebot at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> This is a kind reminder, please fill out the poll before Wednesday:
>> https://doodle.com/poll/t8tdddpbseqqaznx?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://doodle.com/poll/t8tdddpbseqqaznx?utm_source%3Dpoll%26utm_medium%3Dlink&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw1UHlnY9KZJJGIvjrvdEOdV>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ada
>>
>>
>> On 13 Jan 2022, at 11:49, ada nebot <ada.nebot at astro.unistra.fr> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> We would like to set up a meeting on the week of 31st of January.
>> Please let us know your availabilities by filling out this poll:
>> https://doodle.com/poll/t8tdddpbseqqaznx?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://doodle.com/poll/t8tdddpbseqqaznx?utm_source%3Dpoll%26utm_medium%3Dlink&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw1UHlnY9KZJJGIvjrvdEOdV>
>>
>> *Agenda: *
>> Revision of the RoadMap
>> 1 - Keep up with community feedback (continuous effort)
>> 2 - Participate to the running meetings (continuous effort)
>> 3 - Follow up on data formats such as parquet files, PSRFITS (ongoing)
>> 4 - Evaluate the need of SLAP V2
>> https://www.ivoa.net/documents/SLAP/20190409/
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ivoa.net/documents/SLAP/20190409/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw0HobD56KUFhXwCjHEKeA2l> versus
>> LineTAP https://github.com/mmpcn/slapvamdc
>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/mmpcn/slapvamdc&source=gmail-imap&ust=1643305513000000&usg=AOvVaw3kVPvIZ7ZDY1zGl-4-fLUe>.
>> Promote dev of one against the other or both? Collect science cases?
>> 5 - Coming missions & data distribution plans. Survey?
>>
>> The first three items are informative and no further discussion is
>> required. We should have time to talk about the other two items in the
>> agenda.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Francesca & Ada
>>
>>
>> --
>> Astronome Adjointe
>> CDS, Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg (ObAS)
>> UMR 7550 Université de Strasbourg
>> 11, rue de l'Université, F-67000 Strasbourg
>> +33 (0) 3 68 85 24 20
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> *Dr**. **Vandana* *Desai* | Caltech/IPAC
>
>
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-- 
Marco Molinaro
INAF - Istituto Nazionale di AstroFisica
Osservatorio Astronomico di Trieste
email marco.molinaro at inaf.it
tel. [+39] 333 33 20 564 [also Telegram]
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