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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Hi Markus,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Thank you for the fast feedback. I enthusiastically agree with you wording suggestions for sections 2.2 and 4.1. I think the stronger language better captures the consensus opinions from the interop.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">For the Impact Assessment section, your proposed additions make sense to me. They do a good job of describing my sentiment that this erratum won’t directly make a client or service any worse than it was
before. The bullets I had there were essentially recommendations on how providers, consumers and validators should deal with this erratum. Do you think those are useful sentiments, and if so, that they are appropriate in the Impact Assessment sections?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">I will wait another couple days for immediate reactions, then update the erratum with consensus suggestions. It would be nice if this erratum can be considered during the next TCG meeting, but only if
people are comfortable with that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black"><apps-bounces@ivoa.net> on behalf of Markus Demleitner <msdemlei@ari.uni-heidelberg.de><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, February 9, 2018 at 4:12 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Applications WG <apps@ivoa.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Proposed erratum to clarify arraysize="1"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Tom,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 10:31:04PM +0000, Tom Donaldson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Based on the discussion on arraysize=???1??? in Santiago (Apps session 1), I???ve created an erratum proposal for VOTable 1.3.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Please review the erratum at your earliest convenience and comment to this list (<a href="mailto:apps@ivoa.net">apps@ivoa.net</a>)<<a href="mailto:apps@ivoa.net)">mailto:apps@ivoa.net)</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><a href="http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VOTable-1_3-Err-3">http://wiki.ivoa.net/twiki/bin/view/IVOA/VOTable-1_3-Err-3</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks for writing this up -- I think this will be a useful<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">clarification for VOTable.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I would, however, argue that in order to have a clear standard, we<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">should upgrade the shoulds to musts, i.e., for sect. 2.2:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Note: the arraysize attribute must be present if, and only if,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> each table cell for the FIELD is intended to be treated as an<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> array. Hence, arraysize="1" must not be used except in the unusual
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> case that the table cells contain single values that are
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> intended to be understood as single-value arrays.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">And for sect. 4.1:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> The arraysize attribute must be omitted unless the corresponding<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> table cell contents is intended to be understood as an array.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Having "should" here is, I think, hard to interpret in terms of RFC<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">2119:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> SHOULD NOT This phrase, or the phrase "NOT RECOMMENDED" mean that<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances when the<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> particular behavior is acceptable or even useful, but the full<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> implications should be understood and the case carefully weighed<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> before implementing any behavior described with this label.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Applied to arraysize="1" this would mean that VOTable parsers would<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">probably need to let users override the behaviour that arraysize="1"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">are arrays, and I'd argue that's not something we should impose on<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">implementors.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Finally, in the impact assessment section I'd start with:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Since client handling of arraysize="1" was not uniform so far,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> VOTables declaring arraysize="1" for scalars have worked with<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> certain clients (that are considered erroneous with this erratum)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> but broke with others. Hence, while this erratum may lead to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> failures in specific combinations of client and server that worked<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> before (specifically, when a corrected client encounters a<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> still-broken service), the breaking services cannot be considered<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> interoperably working before. We therefore argue that this Erratum<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> does not break existing, working serivces or clients.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> In any case, experience show that services are easy to update where<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> they still use arraysize="1". It is reasonable to expect that they<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> will be updated by the time legacy clients with erroneous<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> arraysize="1" behaviour are corrected.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Or something like this.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> Markus<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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